Attaching the strings and tuning

[damien]

Hello everyone ;D I have read many of these threads and you all sound like lovely people (it must be the erhu that does it) And also some very useful information here too.

This is my first ever thread in a forum and i been on the internet for many years...so here it goes.....

I have ordered an erhu for a very good price, maybe because it has black horse hair on the bow and made from rosewood, im not sure but im over eager to recieve my first musical instrument ever ;D

The question i have is that my erhu shall come with the strings not attached so some how i need to find out how to do that? also, if someone could give me tips on tuning i will be very grateful. Would an electric guitar tuner work? or should i play it by ear?

I live in England, Bristol with no teachers found but i will sure be buying alot of chinese food from the take away just to find out more information ;D

Any information would be great and very much respected.

Thankyou.

[calden]

Damien:

Glad you joined the club. As you pointed out, we're a select group and are totally trans-national.

The strings are tuned D (low string) and A (high string, a 5th above) the same two notes as the middle strings of a violin. A guitar tuner will work fine; just don't mix up the octaves and try and tune the A an octave too low. In fact, get a fiddlin' friend to come by - it's much easier with a real instrument.

As for stringing it up, it's immeasurably easier to show you. I can't do the verbal gymnastics necessary to explain it. You need to find a teacher for this and many other reasons. It will make your initial approach to this wonderful instrument so much easier and more enjoyable.

Although I'm a Yank, I lived in England way back in 1969 for a bit, and I know that anywhere is only an hour or two from anywhere else. Oxford isn't too far from Bristol, really. I'd seek out a teacher and take it to them for a good set-up and initial lesson. Honestly, this will save you weeks of frustration.

The black bow must go. It is inferior horsehair and won't hold the rosin as well, and especially for a beginner the playing will be more difficult. No need to go through that.

Good luck, and ask all the questions you need to here. A lot of the answers will end with "but you should go get a teacher."

Carlos

[Charlie Huang]

All the erhu teachers are in London! If you'd been a bit sooner, you'd have joined the Chinese music summer school!

The erhu class has increased its student number to 8 this year!

[sanmenxia]

Hi!
Attaching the strings and tuning's quite straightforward, you don't really need a teacher for that, a few good photos should be enough to show you how to do it. At the beginning using a electronic tuner would be the easiest, I'm not sure if a guitar tuner would work as they only tune the 6 guitar strings so you might need a chromatic tuner. But eventually you will need to be able to tune by ear to a reference note.

Yeah, London has the most if not all the erhu players/teachers (except for the Chinese music summer school erhu teacher who is in the E. Midlands), but there aren't that many anyway, prob no than a handful. Also you don't have to actually look for a "erhu teacher", even somone who can play a bit can help you a lot. Years age there was a Chinese post-grad linguistics student in Lancaster who also played the erhu to a professional level, so if you're lucky there might be a similar person near you. Good luck!

[davidmdahl]

calden said:

Good luck, and ask all the questions you need to here. A lot of the answers will end with "but you should go get a teacher."

Amen! You can get a lot of good from one lesson to make sure your erhu is set up correctly and learn a few of the basics. That alone will save a lot of time. Any number of lessons you can manage as time goes by will be helpful. This presumes you hit it off with your teacher. If the latter is true, taking lessons on an instrument you love with a good teacher you like is simply fun, and one of life's joys.

Best wishes,

David

[damien]

Thank you all very much for your replies....I still not got my erhu but should get it monday.
I have taken your advice Carlos and ordered a very nice white horse hair bow as i have also read this somewhere else, it is a professional one that you can easily unattach.
I will also chance it and take sanmexias advice as i have looked around and found useful info and pics for attaching the strings and the qianjing capo string www.omnisterra.com/scgi-bin/view.pl/Main/QianJinTying And shall try my best to tune through a free tuner on the internet that uses the mic and then again on my friends electric guitar tuner and in turn play it by ear with an organ.

Thanks ccc, just rub it in hahaa And yes David you are right, I must find a teacher somehow, I have many friends asking on my behalf for teachers but for the mean time i shall practise bowing on the basics and drive my neighbours crazy.

I have Chinese music symbols and meanings and it actually looks easier than western style written music and there are many videos through google videos and youtube, so i shall watch them play too.

Thankyou all again and im sure i will back again soon with more questions.

God Bless

Damien

[Charlie Huang]

Ha! Hu Bin was rather pleased, as last year, there was only 2 for erhu! Every class increased or had established numbers. However, the dizi class almost got cancelled coz of low numbers (with Max only attending one day coz of family matters), only Isabelle was the one whi did the full week (minus one day... oop... should really leave this for the report...

[damien]

Woo Hoo I got my ErHu but oh no haha i thought attaching the strings would be straight forward, don't tell me 'i told you so, Carlos haha. I don't think i will have a problem with the qianjing capo string but the problem is attaching the strings to the tuning pegs as it won't stay winded it just bounces back no matter how many different ways i think to tie it. Is there a special way to tie the string on the tuning pegs?

Also the very same day i get my erhu is the same day my helpful site goes offline for some reason - www.omnisterra.com/scgi-bin/view.pl/Main/QianJinTying

Im still very happy with my erhu even if i don't know what it sounds like but a teacher has bought the same ones so it can't be all that bad except the bridges don't look very good and seems like the strings will be too close together, hmmm.

Still not found a teacher but my mother has a Chinese boss and she is asking around, so hope for the best at the moment.

Any help is always appreciated....Damien

[maaltan]

damien said:

Woo Hoo I got my ErHu but oh no haha i thought attaching the strings would be straight forward

First off. Do you have the traditional pegs (just a carved piece of wood) or brass/copper/bronze worm drive pegs? btw all that ive seen are brass. there appears to be a translation error somewhere.

Second (if its the traditional pegs) do you mean that it unwinds or slips and will not keep tune? try pushing the pegs in more. If i tap the pegs in the wrong way (usually as i am removing it from the case) they unseat and go spinning. Also the traditional pegs dont seem to stick until the strings are under tension.

If you mean that the wire will not stay in the hole long enough for you to start winding try pre-bending the tip of the wire at 90 degrees. The wire is pretty hard and might break so watch out. That should make it easier to thread. Also, make sure you have enough in that little hole.

Also, tie the qianjin after you string your erhu (strings under tension but less than in tune).

btw there are probably proper names for all those parts i described ("little hole", etc). feel free to educate me

[damien]

Thankyou, very quick reply.... My pegs are traditional, made of wood and very firm. I have managed to get them through the holes no problem. Should i spin the string around and then through the hole and should it go through the hole more than once?

Your right, i really dont want to bend them too much as they might snap. Call me stupid but really how does the string stay where it is hahaa please not the cello tape.

Plus im sorry i can't educate you on the names im really not even a beginner hehe

Just need to sort the strings out then i can come back and complain about the qianjin haa.

[damien]

BTW If i do have to put the string through the hole twice it would be a real pain to do and not sure if it's possible but i see how that would keep the string firmly in place.

[maaltan]

you shouldnt need put it in the hole more than once.

Your strings have the silk/miscelanious fibers wrapped around the end right. without it i would say it would slip all over the place and make it very difficult to string properly. If you dont have the fiber around it, you might be able to try this.

I just made this up, but it should work. take some rubber cement or other rubbery substance and put a thin layer on the top inch or so of the string. let it dry completely and then try to string the instrument. Im not saying glue it to your peg, the rubbery residue should be enough to give you a little grip to make it easier to string.


What i usually do is , while the instrument is on your lap as if you are playing it, thread the string inthe hole and using my left hand turn the peg while keeping the string under tension with the right hand (top/inner/D string turn away from you bottom/outer turn toward you so that the strings flow to thier position naturally). once you get the first 3-4 windings it should stay well enough so you can maneuver the loop on the screws on the bottom of the erhu. i find it to be a total pain to try to keep the top and bottom in the right spot at the same time.

Its a pain the first few times. You might be able to persuade a willing bystander to lend you an extra hand or two until you get a feel for the balance of the instrument.

[damien]

I start by looping the string at the bottom of the erhu and keep it tight with one hand and the other hand wrapping it around the peg after threading through the hole which is where the problem is, it just won't stay tight around the peg.

I do have have silk around the wire.

Maybe some blue tack or string to keep it tight but surely there is a certain way of doing it as i have seen on other erhu's.

Thanks for the help but im still scratching my brains.

[paulv]

damien,

The trick I use when replacing the strings is opposite of what you're doing. I first get the string somewhat secure in the tuning peg, then thread it under the qianjin and hook it to the bottom of the resonator box. Once I have it hooked at the bottom, I hold that end secure and then turn the tuning peg.

Which ever method you use is fine -- it all depends on what's easier for you.

Regards,
paul....

[sanmenxia]

This is usually how I put the strings on:
Put a very small double bend in the non-loop end of the string, it helps to keep the end of the string in the peg hole, with erhu in playing position, put the end in the hole and wrap string around peg a few times, make sure it wraps over itself at least once. keep your hand on the peg and thumb and finger on the string to hold it in place, then put erhu with neck on thigh, attach the loop to the bottom and at the same time turn the peg to tighten the string just enough so it stays in place. Repeat for the other string. Then you can put the bridge and pad in place and tie the qianjin. The qianjin to bridge distance will depend on you hand size but 380-400mm works for most people. You can't have it too long because the strings will break under the higher tension.

If you are replacing a string and the qianjin is in place put the string through it before attaching the loop end.

[damien]

Woo Hoo One string in hahaha im doing my best not to get mad and finally after taking my time and listening to your comments i chose my own method. I basicaly put the string through the hole wound it once and back through the hole again then attached the hoop at the bottom and holding the string in place i wound the tuning peg and there we have a nice sturdy string in place....time for the A string and then oh no the qianjin hahaa

Thankyou for the measurements.....I been told that it differs where you put the qianjin but i shall follow 380-400mm for the distance between the string and neck.

Can't thankyou all enough...keep going hahaa

[calden]

damien said:

Your right, i really dont want to bend them too much as they might snap. Call me stupid but really how does the string stay where it is hahaa please not the cello tape.

No, don't use cello tape - you need ERHU tape! Ha ha ha. On this side of the pond we Yanks say Scotch tape. Which is why you Brits aren't allowed to use it. Or something.

I secure my strings to the peg like I do guitar strings. I put the string through the hole so there's about an inch sticking through. I then fold that extending end over against the peg, pointing toward the neck, right alongside the peg. No big bending involved. I hold that there while turning the peg and starting to wind the string, and wind the string OVER the little length which is against the peg. Do a few turns while keeping the string under some tension and the end of the string is pinned to the peg by the few turns you've got around it. It won't let go.

Carlos

[maaltan]

calden said:

No, don't use cello tape - you need ERHU tape!

ahhh... that was bad .. but funny.

[sanmenxia]

"...but i shall follow 380-400mm for the distance between the string and neck."

Err...I hope not! :-)

The qianjin to bridge distance is not critical, but it does have an effect as the string tension will change as you change the qianjin to bridge distance.

[davidmdahl]

sanmenxia said:

The qianjin to bridge distance is not critical, but it does have an effect as the string tension will change as you change the distance.

That is why it can be handy to install tuning qianjin wrappings above the true qianjin on the individual strings for fine adjustments of pitch as an alternative to metal fine-tuners.

Perhaps there is no confusion about this, but it is worth mentioning that an erhu is strung with the inside string laying over the inside of the peg while the outside string lays on the outside of the peg. To tighten the strings the peg for D (inside string) is turned counter-clockwise and the peg for A (outside string) is turned clockwise. I have not tried monkeying with this arrangement and don't know the consequences of stringing differently, but if your erhu is not acting well you might check the stringing.

I am back from from a week-long trip to Montana where I was without any instruments. Talk about withdrawal! Now I am back and anxious for every bit of practice time to catch up. Unfortunately I am finding that good habits are easier to forget than bad habits.

Best wishes,

David

[damien]

Scot tape ay ha ha I never heard about that one before hmm i wonder where cello came from.

400mm hahaa what was i thinking, oh my! what a silly billy.

Carlos, once again you know what your talking about, simple but very effective way of fixing the strings to the pegs but i have done it now and it has worked.

Is there any problem of one string touching the other string on the other peg? would it make much difference to the sound?

Riiiiight time for the qianjin rope piece, should be easy enough but a pain to start with i imagine.

[maaltan]

damien said:

Scot tape ay ha ha I never heard about that one before hmm i wonder where cello came from.

from cellophane, the plastic its made out of. "Scotch" is the 3m brand name that has become genericized to mean all sticky clear tape (as per kleenex). I cant think of any british examples.

I refer to it as 810 tape because i use tons of it. its 3/4" matte finish cellophane tape. It is made by 3m and sold under the "Scotch" brand. the Item number is 810. Actually I use a reputable store brand but typically call it 810 just for clarity. ATG is another tape i use alot of.

Cello/scotch/810 is also refered to invisible or magic tape.

and thats all for todays impromptu lesson on sticky plastic strips

[damien]

hahaha funny, now the subject has turned into one about different tape you can get, Well now i know, Thanks bro hehe.

[sanmenxia]

Changing he qianjin to bridge distance will affect string tension coz the erhu is always tuned to D, A, so if you move the qianjin nearer to the bridge the open string pitch will go up, and you will to slacken the strings to maintain the standard tuning. If you move the qianjin up the neck too far the strings might break as you try to tune up or they will go floppy if the the qianjin is too near the bridge.

To avoid confusion I hope you don’t mind if I add that “To tighten the strings the peg for D (inside string, nearest to player) is turned counter-clockwise and the peg for A (outside string) is turned clockwise looking from the back of the erhu”.

The normal word for clear sticky tape in the UK, sellotape, is also a brand name, which obviously comes from cellotape.

[notmadeinzhongguo]

maaltan said:

damien said:

Scot tape ay ha ha I never heard about that one before hmm i wonder where cello came from.

from cellophane, the plastic its made out of. "Scotch" is the 3m brand name that has become genericized to mean all sticky clear tape (as per kleenex). I cant think of any british examples.

I refer to it as 810 tape because i use tons of it. its 3/4" matte finish cellophane tape. It is made by 3m and sold under the "Scotch" brand. the Item number is 810. Actually I use a reputable store brand but typically call it 810 just for clarity. ATG is another tape i use alot of.

Cello/scotch/810 is also refered to invisible or magic tape.

and thats all for todays impromptu lesson on sticky plastic strips

Wow. That was just awesome. lol No, seriously it was. ;D