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Post by damien on Aug 15, 2006 2:48:39 GMT
Wow hahaa where has this conversation gone about strings and tuning...it's got all abit sticky in here (yeh, i know, bad joke) But anyywayyyy, my erhu is stringed up and yes of course there both going in the right direction and everything is good to go for tuning.
Any tips on tuning would be great...
I would also like to ask if it matters what material you use under the bridge? is a piece of an old pair of jeans ok?
I will play my first note tomorrow, if i can, yipee lol
I don't think im ready for horse racing yet it would probably come out like dopey donkey.
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Post by maaltan on Aug 15, 2006 3:22:53 GMT
I know a type of tape that can help with that j/k I use a program called AP tuner for windows. it of course requires a mic and does a pretty good job of getting things in tune. The newer versions have some interesting tone analysing tools. the older versions respond faster. I find with the traditional pegs its good to start a long way from the note you want (d4 or a4 in the case of erhu) and start turning it while playing and anticipate when it will be in tune. with practice i have been able to hit within 2-5 cents (1/100th of a half step) of the note. Finetuning with the traditional pegs i have found to be about impossible as 1/32 of a turn is almost an octave. You will undoubtably find your own technique. For now, getting the erhu is perfect tune isnt that big of a concern. Focus on getting a steady note before tuning. Tuning by plucking the strings is almost useless. Just get the strings somewhere in the 4th octave and practice basic bowing.
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karl
Intermediate
Posts: 35
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Post by karl on Aug 15, 2006 5:24:30 GMT
To tighten the strings the peg for D (inside string) is turned counter-clockwise and the peg for A (outside string) is turned clockwise. I just checked my erhu pegs. They are as you described it. But my brass tuner erhu has both pegs turned counter-clockwise for tightening. I just never noticed it.
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Post by damien on Aug 15, 2006 13:21:16 GMT
Not a note not even a horrible noise atleast that would be something...
I know i have a black horse hair bow (white one on the way) and it could well be not enough rosin which mine looks like something from jurassic park.
Is the tension of the strings supposed to be really tight? I really don't want to snap the strings because of the trouble of getting them on there in the first place. When i pluck at the string with my finger it makes a sound but not when it is too tight so im not sure if thats it.
And these silly bridges that came with it are uneven by the lloks of it but everything seems to be sturdy.
I guess i will try more rosin then lol
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Post by calden on Aug 15, 2006 13:51:05 GMT
Damien:
It could be the rosin. Does it feel like you're trying to bow with fishing line? If so, then you need more rosin. Try this -
Using a knife, scrape off the rosin onto a piece of paper, so you've got a little pile of powdered rosin. Really try and get it as fine as possible, breaking up the little chunks and bits. Then, using your fingers, work that into the bow hair - really saturate it, massaging the rosin in. Top, bottom, sides, tip to frog - give it a good rosin bath. Shake out the excess. NOW try it.
The string tension shouldn't be overtight. You should easily be able to squeeze the string in toward the neck. Check with the tuner. If really in doubt, take it to a music store that deals with violins and have them tune it - it should be easy for them.
Also, you might not be putting enough pressure on the bow. This thing has to really connect with the string, especially at the very initial second of pulling it - otherwise it just skates.
Again, a sit-down with a teacher is worth a thousand paragaphs of bandwidth. But I hope our suggestions are helping anyway.
Carlos
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Post by notmadeinzhongguo on Aug 15, 2006 14:10:26 GMT
Not a note not even a horrible noise atleast that would be something... I know i have a black horse hair bow (white one on the way) and it could well be not enough rosin which mine looks like something from jurassic park. You probably need more rosin, as Calden suggested. Mine came with a black horse hair as well, I have yet to buy a white one. At first I got no sound at all, nothing, but after a rosin bath it works fine. What worked better for me was using sandpaper instead of a knife. It rubs off a really find powder that is really easy to work into the hair, just don't use your fingers unless you have plastic gloves on or things could go bad very quickly.
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Post by damien on Aug 15, 2006 14:48:53 GMT
Thankyou so much i have been taking my time putting my erhu together and from my knowledge i have put the strings and qianjing rope on very well and tight and yes Carlos i have kept the bow very much stretched and press hard soft and inbetween just to test it out but still no sound. When i pluck the strings i get a sound so that tells me it is not the erhu and it's strings but it's the bow. Im happy to see notmadeinzhongguo had a black bow because you must of been able to play atleast something with it.
Just as i thought ROSIN but to say it needs a bath, well that is more than a little rub a dub dub so i hope it works.
Thankyou for all your help im having more fun in this forum than actually trying to play it hahaa But i shall get success, im on a mission and im not going to give up hope.
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Post by damien on Aug 15, 2006 14:54:27 GMT
By the way Carlos, you have been exalted hahaa your a real big help (not to say others are not because they are) You normally give massive input of expertise and make your posts long. Well done and keep up the good work.
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Post by notmadeinzhongguo on Aug 15, 2006 16:13:05 GMT
Just as i thought ROSIN but to say it needs a bath, well that is more than a little rub a dub dub so i hope it works. Just to clairify, when I say 'bath' I mean rosin dust only, no water or anything. Any yes, it is possible to play with a black bow, I'm not that good yet, but I can get some great sound out of it, it may be just one note that sounds good -lol- but at least I know I could play with it. And yes, again, Mr. Carlos is a wicked mastermind with the erhu.
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Post by davidmdahl on Aug 15, 2006 16:31:52 GMT
By the way Carlos, you have been exalted hahaa your a real big help (not to say others are not because they are) You normally give massive input of expertise and make your posts long. Well done and keep up the good work. Ditto! Best wishes, David
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Post by damien on Aug 15, 2006 16:33:48 GMT
hahaha well im not that stupid but i did think for one second just maybe after hearing people taking there awesome bow into the bath with them lol No really i knew what you meant. i think sandpaper would do a better job except you would probably waste alot sticking to the paper.
Atlast i have a sound and you were both right, it needed a good sprinkle of rosin and now i have the sweet sound of a seal dying hahaa Time for tuning
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Post by damien on Aug 15, 2006 16:48:57 GMT
Awwww King David, I didn't exalt you hahaa but now you and Carlos are both on 5 karma each.
I think that's fair lol
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Post by notmadeinzhongguo on Aug 15, 2006 18:58:39 GMT
hahaha well im not that stupid but i did think for one second just maybe after hearing people taking there awesome bow into the bath with them lol No really i knew what you meant. I figured you did, but better to be safe then sorry.
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Post by damien on Aug 16, 2006 13:05:14 GMT
Yeh i know what you mean, no probs notmadeinzhongguo. Im just happy to be getting help otherwise i would be stuck and simple comments go a long way, not just for me but also for other people. I can now get a steady note in the length of my bow and didn't think i would get that far on just the first day of playing. It is now my second day in the practise of bowing and i have found after leaving my erhu next to an open widow with the cold coming in i guess it's now needing more rosin as it's not creating a smooth sound once again. I shall buy some new rosin tomorrow just to experiment. Probably some rosin made for a violin, see if that makes a difference. Speaking of violin and as this part of the forum is for tuning i thought i'd post a link to a website for violins which has mp3 samples for the two middle strings as a continued A and D note which is the same as an erhu. www.violinonline.com/tuning.htm Hope people find it helpful.
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Post by damien on Aug 16, 2006 13:09:02 GMT
I see Carlos had one more karma so David as you have been equaly helpful i thought it is my duty to exalt you and crown thee King David lol
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Post by maaltan on Aug 16, 2006 17:37:02 GMT
oops i forgot to mention.. but youve mostly already figured it out.
The rosin that comes with the instrument is probably worthless. especially since you got a blackhair bow also. let me guess. is it a very dark green circle of glass like material? I just picked up some dark moderatly priced (about $5US .. cant remember conversions to Lbs) violin rosin and it was so much easier to get it to play properly. the light is harder and if you tend to play in hot areas (>80 deg F... again C conversion has left my brain) its better but its harder to get ont he strings.
Basically i found "dark for cold" and "light for hot". Overall dark is a good general purpose rosin if nothing else is available. The "dark disc" that came with my erhu wasn't rosin .. it was fossilized (i guess that makes it amber )
As someone told me earlier (calden maybe) rosin is the cheapest part of the instrument, lasts the longest, and easiest to find. Therefore you have plenty of room to play around with it. Even the most expensive gold flake bearing rosins are only about $20-$30 for a cake that would last you years. I'm not good enough to notice the difference with those yet so i havn't tried them.
Finally always violin rosin. Cello rosin is very very sticky and would not do well at all.
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Post by davidmdahl on Aug 16, 2006 18:07:06 GMT
Finally always violin rosin. Cello rosin is very very sticky and would not do well at all. Maaltan is right on the mark. It is a mystery to me why cello rosin is often packaged with an erhu. Maybe a stickier rosin makes a black-hair or nylon bow work better. Whatever the price-point of the erhu, a good $20 bow with a good quality violin rosin will make it easier to play. Best wishes, David
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Post by damien on Aug 17, 2006 19:52:59 GMT
Yes it is very odd that this crap stuff gets sold with the erhu's, mine is like a dark bronze (not green) but i went to the violin shop today and they only had one kind for violins and this one is the same colour bronze but much brighter and was very cheap, I think it is called Jaganini from Germany. It was only 90 pence which is probably about 2 dollars in the states. Since getting the rosin into powder form and lightly rubbing it on the bow with a latex glove on i have noticed the hairs have loosened which is not good, so im thinking maybe the latex gloves caused this and im handling the bow to much. Good job i had 2 bows come with my erhu and one jointless white bow coming my way
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Post by maaltan on Aug 17, 2006 21:26:52 GMT
The bows tension can be adjusted by turning that tiny metal thing on the end where you hold it (at least every one ive ever seen). the tension will change according to humidity and temperature. I can't think of how you could have damaged it with the gloves.
horse hair contracts/gets frizzy in higher humidity. there are some humitiy gauges that uses a single strand of hair as the detector.
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Post by damien on Aug 18, 2006 11:45:43 GMT
Oh great, thankyou. I wondered if the metal thingy did anything, but i just gathered it held it in place, silly me again i guess it makes sense. I think where i have taken the bow away from the strings by unattaching it by the bow joint it has bent just a little bit, but i find it much easier to rosin with the bow unattached.
How do you do it? Do you unattach the string instead?
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Post by maaltan on Aug 18, 2006 14:40:40 GMT
I dont know what you mean by bow joint. I typically completely remove the end you hold by completely unscrewing it. Some bows have a hook instead of a solid molded piece(like mine). Simply loosen the bow enough to remove it from the hook if yours is this style.
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Post by damien on Aug 18, 2006 18:03:29 GMT
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Post by davidmdahl on Aug 18, 2006 18:33:28 GMT
That looks like the same brand of bow that I have several of waiting on the self for my current bow to wear out. My teacher also has several of these which he likes very much. I don't remember if mine are the Beijing or Shanghai style. They are indeed very good bows, so you should be happy with yours.
Best wishes,
David
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Post by shadrad on Aug 30, 2006 2:26:02 GMT
It's funny that this should be my very first post...
Hi, I've been lurking on the forums for a short time-- they've been infinitely helpful, so thank you to everyone who has been so talkative! *laughs*
I got my first erhu (which is my very first string and bow instrument ever) a few weeks ago, and thankfully every practice session has shown improvement. I suppose this isn't hard considering my first day was atrocious and I like to deny those sounds were possible.
As fate would have it, however, I snapped not just one but /two/ strings the other day, and while I'm waiting for my replacements to arrive, I figured I should add my 2 cents, which I suppose isn't worth much considering how new I am.
I picked up a violin-specific pitch pipe at the music store and it's been infinitely helpful in tuning my strings (when I'm not breaking them, that is). Mostly this is because it leaves my hands free to bow the strings and also to tighten the pegs while I tootle (for lack of a better verb) on the pitch pipe the correct pitch.
I've infinitely more experience singing than using instruments, so my ability to hear and match pitch is quite good, but my ability to secure the peg at the correct pitch is.. a little lacking because I've got tiny, weak girly hands, and every time I think I have it, it ends up shifting sharp or flat (usually flat) and I end up having to try and try again. I've considered sanding a bit of the wax off of the peg in the hopes that will help it stay in place, but I'm reluctant to take sandpaper to my erhu after I've had it for such a brief time.
For the record, my first string 'broke' (it actually just slipped out) because the thread wrapped around the end came off and it kept slipping until I tightened it too much and it gave up the ghost. The second snapped as I was replacing that one-- I accidently threaded it the wrong way and when I pulled it out to redo it, it unfortunately developed a kink and having worked with wirecraft before, I knew it was done for (it snapped the very first time I tried to tune it).
Out of spite for having only a single string to practice on, I spent an hour playing a single-string version of 'Twinkle Twinkle Little Star' on the inner string and driving the cat insane.
I'm eagerly awaiting my replacements (5 sets of two for $10, including shipping, not a bad deal. These are also the same strings (dunhuang) that came with my erhu) and hope to report some progress when I manage to string it back correctly.
Any suggestions someone might have for a better/easier way to secure the pegs without feeling like I'm trying to shove a baseball bat through a keyhole?
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Post by davidmdahl on Aug 30, 2006 8:38:38 GMT
Welcome to our forum, Shadrad! I am sorry that you are having so much trouble with your erhu. Mine is of a hard wood and the D tuning peg gives me trouble also. A softer wood for the pegs might be easier to manage since they would probably seat better. The pegs should not have any wax or finish on the contact area. There should be raw wood against raw wood. Don't put rosin on the pegs! I have heard that chalk can help.
My teacher has suggested that I cut some grooves along the length of the troublesome peg, at least the part that is in the peg hole. I have not done this yet, but you may find it worth a try. I have a fine-tuner on my D string so I don't have to move the peg so much.
Some erhus come with geared tuners, and these can be easier to manage for some people. Of course getting a different erhu is a drastic option. You might try contacting your erhu supplier (Cadenza perhaps?) to see if softer wood tuners might be available.
Best wishes,
David
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