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Post by calden on Jan 19, 2006 14:54:34 GMT
I've heard the barbarian thing - the name of the tribe having become synonymous for barbarian. I also heard that the "hu" meant beard - as in hair - so it meant "two-hair" instrument. They might have been pulling my leg, though, because they also used to call me Lao-hutz because I had a beard.
Carlos
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Post by calden on Jan 19, 2006 14:59:59 GMT
Maaltan -
I also agree with the comments about not jumping in too fast with hard pieces. That may work for programming but it will surely short-circuit study of the erhu. You sound like an exceptionally smart person who is accustomed to analyzing a new concept until you grasp it as a way of mastering it. This may not work with erhu.
One of my teachers told me that if I could play slow songs well with emotion and feeling and precision, the fast songs will be easy. He also indicated that the real heart and soul of China is in the slow songs, and that I OUGHT to try and capture that first. I've found that the slow, simple numbers are indeed challenging enough and provide plenty for me to practice on. I can more-or-less rip through "Horse Race" which impresses people, but I love sinking into some simple folk tune and really making the erhu sing.
My opinion only - hope it helps. Carlos
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Post by YouLanFengChune on Jan 19, 2006 15:58:25 GMT
FAN SHEN GE
Literally means turning body, but Fan Shen means to have a dramtic improvement in their lives. The actual name of the song was "Nong Min Fan Shen Quan Kao Dang", which means the Farmer's lives improved due to the (Communist) Party.
Lots of cultural back ground, and its really a nice piece.
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elvenefris
Novice
As the Sun for the Earth
Posts: 3
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Post by elvenefris on Jan 20, 2006 16:16:25 GMT
Ahoy! Newbie to both this forum and to the Erhu here. I'm shamelessly hogging this thread for a second in fear of infesting this board with one too many "newbie"-threads. I've been wanting to play the Erhu for several years, though I've been rather... utopic in my research and pursuits. (Mainly due to my dedication to my main instrument, the fretless bass guitar) I've decided to do something about it. I'm from Norway, mayhaps as far away from an Erhu as a person can come. However, I'm travelling to New York in February and was hoping to be able to buy an Erhu there. Does anyone know of any shops i New York specializing in Chinese instruments? I'm planning to go exploring in Chinatown at least. If I should come home to Norway empty-handed, I've decided that I should order one. I saw that www.cadenzamusic.biz was recommended in a thread here, and was wondering if the 173.60$ Dunhuang Erhu was worth a shot? (Link) www.cadenzamusic.biz/sw_eh4.htm If needed, I'm considering going up in the 350$ range for something like; www.cadenzamusic.biz/wqx_eh2.htmThe thought of paying as little as 173.60$ for a descent beginners instrument is somewhat alluring, but I want to make sure the quality is sufficent. Also, as I mentioned living in Norway, Erhu teachers are few and far between. In fact, I haven't found a single one yet. Therefore I was wondering if anyone could reccomend any books for learning. I've bookmarked most of the online videos recommended here, but would also love to have an instructional tape in DVD or VHS format. So if anyone knows where to get some, please spill the beans. As I've mentioned earlier, I'm not new to fretless instruments, but I'm new to using a bow. I've heard it mentioned here several times that a tutor is the best option, but the chances of finding an Erhu teacher in Norway are unfortunately pretty slim. I'd also like mention that I admire this forum and its inhabitants for their dedication and helpful attitude to us who are new to the game, and apologize for my bad english in advance Cheers, Erlend.
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Post by paulv on Jan 20, 2006 16:51:45 GMT
Hi Erlend, Welcome to the forum. Finding tutorial material for the erhu in English is extremely difficult as 99.9999999% (no, I'm not a reliability engineer!) of it is in Mandarin. Some links to try, as others here have pointed out before: Jie Bing Chen: www.jiebingchen.com, some video stuff, but very short. George Gao: www.ggao.com, has an English video with some basics -- never saw it so I can't comment on it. I also made some fingering charts that I've passed out to other forum members -- send me a PM with a good email and I'll send them to you. Keep looking around in Norway -- you never know who you could find that could help you. A few years ago, I went to Norway several times on business to the small town of Vardø, and ran into a North Korean guy working in a hamburger place. Besides speaking his native language, he could speak Norwegian and English. Check out some Chinese cultural centers, etc. Don't worry about about "hogging" this thread -- we're all here to help eachother in our pursuit of traditional Chinese music. I have my lesson this weekend -- I'll ask my teacher of any music shops in NYC since he's from there. Good luck. Regards, paul...
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Post by calden on Jan 20, 2006 17:28:56 GMT
Eriend:
Welcome. Don't worry about being a newbie. We all are to a great extent, and the more questions you can ask the better because we all learn.
My opinions on your questions: Cadenza is reputable. I have found in general that spending a few more bucks for an erhu is a good thing. They are a bit heavier and easier to play. I'm just astonished at what can be had for a few hundred dollars. I mean, how much is a good fretless bass? What do you have - a Lakland or Fender or something? I always advocate to not buy cheap with an erhu - sure one can save a few bucks but it's hardly worth it.
Also - there is a genetic link between Norwegians and Mongolians. I'm not kidding. I had a doctor friend a while back who had a really strange body - tall and thin, dark hair and dark eyes, and a REALLY long waist and REALLY short legs. He claimed it was from his Norwegian family background, that apparently a lot of folks there have this racial stock, and that it came from Mongolian invaders from long ago. ( I think he was being serious - you might confirm that for me!) ANyway, the erhu originates from the Northern and Western nomadic Mongolian tribes, so if all the above is true, you're already halfway there in learning to play this thing. It's in your blood!
I love George Gao's playing, but I bought his introductory erhu video and found it lacking in a lot of ways. It might be okay for a rank beginner, but if you could get to a teacher in NYC when you visit you'll be a LOT better off wtih a sit-down lesson. Bring a video camera and beg the teacher to give you permission to tape it, with special shots of hand positions and bowing movements. That will be at least as good as any video/ DVD you can purchase.
Good luck. YOu'll love this isntrument. Playing fretless bass (and having the right genes?) it'll be easy for you.
Carlos
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elvenefris
Novice
As the Sun for the Earth
Posts: 3
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Post by elvenefris on Jan 20, 2006 18:51:05 GMT
Thanks for the quick reply guys! Paul: Sent you a PM with my e-mail concerning those fingering charts. I will be checking out a Chinese cultural center(If we have such a thing) like you advised, and I consider putting up notes on chinese/vietnamese restaurants. It's worth a shot, I'd say. Calden: It's true about the mongolian blood, at least to an extent. Scandinavia(disregarding parts of Finland, northern Sweden and northern Norway which is of Finnish-Ugrish(sp?) heritage, closely related to the people of Hungary and Turkey) is of an Indo-European heritage. Even though my own blood is mixed with both Finnish and gypsy blood, I'd like to at least think that I'll have an upper hand when it comes to learning this instrument. I appreciate your input on the instruments I linked. Seems like it is with Erhu like it is with other instruments; You need to pay a little extra for quality. My bass was 1500$, an Ibanez GWB1(Gary Willis signature bass), Ordered from USA. If I had bought it in Norway, I'd have to pay twice that ammount. So yeah, quality costs. Being a music student however, money doesn't come by easy. If I doesn't come home from New York with an Erhu, I will most likely order one in the 350$ range. That's still pretty cheap for an instrument! I'll also check out the possibilities of getting an Erhu lesson in NYC. I'll have a handycam with me, so that's actually a very good idea. And last, a pretty embarassing question; The Erhu bow, how do you get the bow between the strings? Does one need to detatch the upper string or the bow hairs before playing, or is it allways mounted in-between? Thanks again, Erlend
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Post by paulv on Jan 20, 2006 19:03:23 GMT
Erlend, That's not an embarrassing question. You just unclip the bow from the adjustable hook (known as the "frog" from violinists) and run the bow through the two strings and re-clip it. There's many opinions on how much slack should be on the bow -- I usually adjust it where I feel comfortable with it.
Regards, Paul...
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Post by davidmdahl on Jan 20, 2006 19:14:55 GMT
Let me add my greeting, Erlend! You and your questions are welcome here. I agree with the other comments and recommendations by Paul and Carlos. In particular, buy the best instrument you can afford. I don't know about music stores in NYC, but I have in general not been very impressed with the quality of Asian instruments in retail music stores. Your best bet is probably through a teacher or Cadenza. If you want to check out the latter, don't get to stuck on the website. Send an email and see what is recommended for your price range. I suspect that more models are available than is on the website. I know of one Chinese music organization in NYC: www.musicfromchina.org/I would love to have a lesson with Wang Guowei myself. He was in my city last fall, but unfortunately I was out-of-town and missed him. Mr. Wang might be a good contact for an instrument. Personally I would order one from Cadenza, but you would likely do well either way. Best wishes, David
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Post by paulv on Jan 20, 2006 19:18:46 GMT
Hey David, I just noticed that your nickname has changed. May I ask what is the origin of "Junior Bird Man"?
Regards, Paul...
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Post by davidmdahl on Jan 20, 2006 19:20:57 GMT
I would add about installing the bow, that some frogs need to be completely removed from the end of the stick to unhook the bow hair loop. It is not difficult to do however, just a little more involved than with the bows with an open notch on the frog.
Best wishes,
David
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Post by davidmdahl on Jan 21, 2006 0:32:06 GMT
Hey David, I just noticed that your nickname has changed. May I ask what is the origin of "Junior Bird Man"? The old nickname did not quite fit my place in the universe <g>. The new nickname came to me in a flash of inspiration and silliness. In retrospect it could be homage to the stylized bird I have seen in some Vietnamese decorations. I will try to post an example sometime on my website when it is ready. Best wishes, David
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Post by YouLanFengChune on Jan 21, 2006 3:12:46 GMT
Hi!
David: I'm glad you like the bow, but rehairing costs $40, more than the bow itself, costs only $18 to buy. Makes no sense, right?
I will be buying in 50 bows over the next week. You want a couple?
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Post by paulv on Jan 21, 2006 3:31:06 GMT
Hi Yinhao, The last time I was in China I was checking on some bows. The person working in the shop told me it would cost $40 for a new bow and the same price to re-hair my bow, so I bought another bow and when I got home, I removed the hair and mounted it on my bow.
I only did this because I like my bow -- the bamboo is soft and very flexible and most of the other bows I've seen are harder bamboo and very stiff.
By the way, I had to re-hair my bow because I got too much rosin on it and couldn't shake it off -- I ended up scraping it off which ruined the hair-- chalk it up to inexperience (more like stupidity!)
Regards, Paul....
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Post by maaltan on Jan 21, 2006 4:25:33 GMT
Ahoy! Newbie to both this forum and to the Erhu here. I'm shamelessly hogging this thread for a second in fear of infesting this board with one too many "newbie"-threads. arrg my thread... get out before i call the cops .. just kidding. Welcome. Well i got it. it feels like a good one for all i know. I will take some good pics tomarrow or sunday hopefully so the experts can evaluate its quality. I did not consider that the average asian body frame tends to be much smaller than the average scott/celt frame i have inherited (6'4''). the bow feels tiny compared to the videos i've watched. the bow appears to be some sort of white hair. at first it looked like discolored nylon fishing line (clearish beige fibers). I was worried for a minute but decided to try it. It was unrosined (expected). but instead of the 20 minutes you were supposed to spend rosining(information from a violin site) a new bow i just swiped it about 3 times with my cheapy local special and it made plenty of sound. it will grab the string with the slightest pressure and not scratch with even the hardest pressure (assuming i move bow fast enough) After a few minutes torturing the spirits a few hairs fell off (i assume thats normal with a new bow, at least it is with natural hair paint brushes). i decided to test the fibers and they burnt quickly with a very black yet fragile and porous ash. It smelled vaguely like burning hair but sweeter with a woody undertone (possibly the rosin). nylon balls up and sputters with a blueish flame (and typically sticks to my skin as it burns ) I can assume that it is some sort of whitish horse hair that i was promised in description. I can get a pretty scratchy open string on both strings. enough to make the tuner software register anyway. I could have sword you tuned to d3 and a3 but it was a pain to get any sound a that octave. the erhu came with a little tuner pipe thingy that registered at d4 and a4 so i retuned to that with much better results. Speaking of the little tuner pipes (2 1/2" silver tubes brazed together sloppily (is that a word?) ) i can't believe the precision of something so crude. according to the tuner software they were less than .01 cent off. Also very steady with no regards to how hard i blew them. Last thing before I leave you alone for the night. I know its early but i decided to play with the left hand a bit and i have noticed that even though i can get a steadyish note with open strings the moment i stop the strings anywhere it goes back to the grinding gears sound. This happens no matter how hard i press with left fingers. It probably just somthing that fixes itself with practice but figure i would mention incase its a mechanical problem with something somewhere. Also, the erhu is a very comfortable instrument to play (the postures shown, although appear contortionistic, are actually very relaxed. if you fell asleep while playing and your body went limp, it wouldnt move very far. --------------------------------------- also, i got some of the ebay vcds. they are in PAL format (duh i hear you say but i didn't thing about it and if you are in north america it makes a slight difference). if you show pal on an ntsc monitor it will be stretched out missing bottom 25% of screen and will appear in flickering black and white. Also, for some reason windows media player coudlnt interpret the video streams. I got it to work in VLC though (available on every platform for the mac users on here) I plan on hacking on them sometime tonight or tomarrow to convert them to NTSC. I figured i would mention it incase anybody was thinking of getting them.
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Post by YouLanFengChune on Jan 21, 2006 5:31:13 GMT
PAUL!!
Argh!!! to get rid of too much rosin, wash your (bow's) hair in nice shampoo with lukewarm water (about 40 degrees centigrade)
Use good uality rosin for violins, most china rosins, sadly, can't even have 60% rosin content.
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Post by maaltan on Jan 21, 2006 6:05:51 GMT
PAUL!! Argh!!! to get rid of too much rosin, wash your (bow's) hair in nice shampoo with lukewarm water (about 40 degrees centigrade) Use good uality rosin for violins, most china rosins, sadly, can't even have 60% rosin content. i've also read somewhere denatured alcohol ( or if in a bind isopropanol, rubbing alcohol) can be used to remove rosin. i might be trying this soon. my rosin job is patchy. found a place that was slick and touched it up.. got a bit too much on there so i decided to rub it off with finger or other miscelanous object.. oops now its too slick again. repeat this scenario several times over the last 2 hour and my bow might be beyond repair. BTW i can make this erhu make the coolest sounds now. i got the over driven hendrix guitar down pat. Even got the feedback squeal. must remember this mode of playing so i can do purple haze sometime in the future. if this thing plugged in somewhere i would swear it was an electric guitar. now. enough playing around and see if i can make it sound like an erhu.
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Post by calden on Jan 21, 2006 7:00:58 GMT
BTW i can make this erhu make the coolest sounds now. i got the over driven hendrix guitar down pat. Even got the feedback squeal. must remember this mode of playing so i can do purple haze sometime in the future. if this thing plugged in somewhere i would swear it was an electric guitar. now. enough playing around and see if i can make it sound like an erhu. That's it. You're hooked. Throw away the keyboard and guitar. Forget movie nights - you'll be sitting watching masters squeeze out the classics, and you'll be weeping. Carlos
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Post by davidmdahl on Jan 21, 2006 8:18:41 GMT
Hi! David: I'm glad you like the bow, but rehairing costs $40, more than the bow itself, costs only $18 to buy. Makes no sense, right? I will be buying in 50 bows over the next week. You want a couple? My dilemma is that I like my bow better than the standard replacement bows I have. They are good, but the bow that came with my erhu is better. I don't quite understand why the hair is worth twice as much when it is not attached to the stick. Well, if that is the case, can I get a bow or so like the one that came with my ebony sandalwood erhu? Then if I still like my bow better, I can take the hair off of the new bow. Best wishes, David
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Post by maaltan on Jan 21, 2006 18:18:17 GMT
ok quick problem.
that string tied on the playing strings. whatever the name of it is.
i was reading that should be adjusted to the player's arm length from shoulder to second knuckle. My problem is that particular biometric places that string nut thing up in the middle of the tuning pegs. can i asume that as far as it will go up the teardrop shaped area is good enough? or am i going to have to find me some extra large version of this instrument?
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Post by sanmenxia on Jan 21, 2006 19:59:51 GMT
Hi, It's called "qianjin", pronounced something like chee-en gin (chee-en is 1 syllable). That "player's arm length from shoulder to second knuckle" is only a rough guide, it really should depend on hand size and finger reach. I have mine at 400mm from from nut to bridge, 380mm is OK for those with smaller hands. You don't need it any higher, as you will have too much tension on the strings. If it needs adjusting, it is only to make it shorter for child players.
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Post by maaltan on Jan 21, 2006 22:20:52 GMT
Hi, It's called "qianjin", pronounced something like chee-en gin (chee-en is 1 syllable). That "player's arm length from shoulder to second knuckle" is only a rough guide, it really should depend on hand size and finger reach. I have mine at 400mm from from nut to bridge, 380mm is OK for those with smaller hands. You don't need it any higher, as you will have too much tension on the strings. If it needs adjusting, it is only to make it shorter for child players. maybe that is why i just blew my A string. and the package that was supposed to have the replacement was empty .. son of a . . .well since it looks like i will be waiting for another week for parts .... grrr. i guess i try that dental floss someone mentioned somewhere nothing to lose i guess. what type steel is that A string? i just buy a spool of it since it appears im going to be going through them.like crazy
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Post by paulv on Jan 21, 2006 23:57:43 GMT
PAUL!! Argh!!! to get rid of too much rosin, wash your (bow's) hair in nice shampoo with lukewarm water (about 40 degrees centigrade) Use good uality rosin for violins, most china rosins, sadly, can't even have 60% rosin content. I know, I know, I've done that before with success but I just didn't want to go through the washing/drying wait so I did something stupid. Now my erhu playing sounds crappy and I was just starting to get some good sounds from it last summer. Oh well..... I have been using a good rosin as I found out a long time ago that the China rosins are bad. David, I share your dilemma! Maaltan, That's an approximation -- what I did was to find out where it was comfortable for my index to sound an "E" on the inside string and then adjust the qianjin accordingly. Does this mean you're searching eBay for some used Marshall Tower amps? BTW, if you master Jimi Hendrix' version of "Hey Joe" could you post the mp3 here? Regards, Paul...
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Post by YouLanFengChune on Jan 22, 2006 0:32:03 GMT
Hi!
for my music school, we use cotton string with wax or nylon or some polyester coated on it. I needsa to be soft to bend, but hard enough to maintain its shape nomater how ou contort the strings.
if you use pure cotton string, apply some resin glue on it, and let it solidify. Your erhu will sound so much cleaner.
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Post by maaltan on Jan 22, 2006 2:10:52 GMT
Ahh i have A back .. for 45 seconds at a time . I am using unwaxed dental floss. I assume its a long fiber cotton but im not sure what they use for dental floss in US right now. it might be nylon multifiliment. with a single strand a4 was too loose and didn't have any volume. I ended up using a double strand (a pain to string up btw. I needed about 5 hands to keep everything straight. Erhu is a comfortable instrument to play but AKWARD to maneuver and maintain out of position.) Only problem is its stretching alot. it drifts flat about a note (key?, still trying to master musical terms a minute). I think it is slowing down so maybe it will become playable before it snaps. I cant seem to play it has hard as the steel wire though. every other word on this board has been "bow harder and use the entire bow" so i have been focusing on that. The floss starts sawing at about half the pressure of the steel string no matter how fast i move bow. What weight cotton string do you use? Do you use a heavier string for the D like you do when you use the steel wire? what do you mean by resin glue. Do you mean alphatic resin (wood glue) or an epoxy glue (2 part resin + hardener) or something else? i have an acrylic floor polish (future brand) i have used as a general purpose varnish/sealant (works great also) . I will try this with crochet thread and see what it does. Heck since I know the "official" people use simple cotton string. I think im going to officially switch to it (at least for a while). I am liking how the new string sounds compared to the old one.
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