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Post by Charlie Huang on Jan 26, 2006 22:41:20 GMT
LOL @ Jimi Hendrix Erhu pic!!!
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Post by YouLanFengChune on Jan 26, 2006 23:25:36 GMT
Hi!
The best of Erhus are finished with only wax, with a bit shellac.
Majority of Erhus use lacquer (ewwww....) making it having a shiny effect, usually oupled with wood stains.
HORRID ONES USE ENAMEL PaINT... ARGH!!
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Post by Charlie Huang on Jan 26, 2006 23:54:52 GMT
Lacquer should only be used on a wooden surface is you are going to press and slide strings on it, like on the guqin.
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Post by maaltan on Jan 29, 2006 1:40:34 GMT
ok. I am getting almost dangerous now. got about 75% of the interleaved D scale "assigned" by this VCD.
A couple of things I am noticing. First, when im playing outer string, the bow gets bouncy at the end of the outward stroke (near tip). I assume its one of two things, Insufficient skill or improper bow tension. Possibly something else is out of adjustment
second is that the new outside string I just recieved sounds ... er brighter i guess is the proper term. It has more high frequency components than the inside D string stopped at A5. Of course the D string is older, about 20 -30 hours on it so far. I have been told that new strings have to mature for a while to sound the best. Is this normal or do I need to change the strings to the same brand to get matching sound?
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Post by sanmenxia on Jan 29, 2006 14:06:26 GMT
New strings will soung different, the new one will settle down. You said A5, do you mean A4? The outside open string at A4 will sound very different to the inside stopped at A4, it's normal. As for the bouncing bow, it could be both!
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Post by maaltan on Jan 29, 2006 15:51:48 GMT
yeah a4 is what i meant.
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Post by paulv on Jan 29, 2006 16:28:17 GMT
My past experiences lead me to agree with sanmenxia -- it usually takes me almost a week to break in a new set of strings. One time, I thought I could pre-stretch the strings but only broke them! I guess they can't be "pre-loaded" like changing a car spring.
Same with your bow problems -- probably both. I vaguely remember a post that Carlos did where he mentioned some measurements related to tension of the bow that his teacher recommended. I just set the tension to where it's comfortable for me to play.
Regards, Paul
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Post by sanmenxia on Jan 29, 2006 17:59:57 GMT
Bow tension will depend on your own preference and stiffness of the bow stick. A starting point is to have the hair almost straight with no tension, tighter if the stick is more flexible, looser if more stiff.
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Post by maaltan on Jan 29, 2006 21:39:48 GMT
hmm i should probably loosen it then. i have been playing with it almost as tight as the strings. (it was how it arrived so i assumed it was right)
...
I have loosened and played for a few minutes. the bouncing is gone but my bowing hand is getting sore from having to press the bow hair harder to play the inner string. If i dont press hard enough the bamboo backing contacts the outer string. I think im going to tighten a little more and see how things go.
of course, all the time i have been putting into this its about time something got sore. I thought i was doing it wrong.
Everybody has told me that when learning guitar if your left fingers are not bleeding by the end of the second practice session, your not doing it right. This isn't guitar, of course, but i assumed similar results.
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Post by paulv on Jan 29, 2006 23:21:12 GMT
maaltan, That's right -- you'll be feeling discomfort in both hands until they get used to this new thing called an erhu! A couple of tips:
When holding the bow, don't let the bamboo part be lower than the hair. Get used to stretching your left hand little finger so you can catch those notes -- depending where your qianjin is positioned, this could be a big stretch.
Good luck
Regards, paul....
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Post by davidmdahl on Jan 30, 2006 9:46:20 GMT
I have loosened and played for a few minutes. the bouncing is gone but my bowing hand is getting sore from having to press the bow hair harder to play the inner string. If i dont press hard enough the bamboo backing contacts the outer string. I think im going to tighten a little more and see how things go. My first instinct was to tighten the bow hair too much. My teacher tightens the hair only as much as is needed. So instead of approaching the "right" tension from too tight, he goes from too loose until it works for him. From your description of soreness in your right hand, I wonder if you are using your fingers to push the hair away from the stick when playing the inner string. When you hold the bow properly, you should be able to play either string without stress. One being the thumb, you hold the bow with fingers one and two, and push the bow hair against the inner string with fingers three and four. When playing the outer string, fingers three and four push against the stick. At least this is one good way to do it. Everybody has told me that when learning guitar if your left fingers are not bleeding by the end of the second practice session, your not doing it right. This isn't guitar, of course, but i assumed similar results. There is some truth to the idea, since muscles used in a new way can hurt at first, and skin can hurt before calluses build up. However, it is also easy to play a musical instrument with a poor enough technique to cause injury. Be careful not to practice with tension or bad posture. If you do not have a teacher, watch videos of good players to get tips. Take videos of yourself to compare. Chuc Mung Nam Moi - Happy New Year! Best wishes, David
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Post by sanmenxia on Jan 30, 2006 10:39:29 GMT
A good tip is also to play in front of a mirror, I was shocked when I tried it to see my bow arm going all over the place instead of going in a straight line.
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Post by paulv on Jan 30, 2006 11:53:06 GMT
A good tip is also to play in front of a mirror, I was shocked when I tried it to see my bow arm going all over the place instead of going in a straight line. Same here! I also videotaped myself playing a few times and besides seeing my bowing being poor, I also noticed my left elbow was a little too high -- fixed that problem immediately. Regards, Paul...
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Post by maaltan on Jan 30, 2006 15:16:53 GMT
I am using forefinger and thumb to loosely hold the bow. I then use the second and third fingers to manupulate the bow. pull on hairs (like closing my hand) for inside string and pushing on bamboo back(opening hand) for outside strings.
I think I have found a good tension for me. I started loose and floppy. the excessive pressure required to bow the strings was causing the discomfort. I tightened until that discomfort dissapeared. I am seeing a little bouncing but i think I'm just going to have to learn to control it.
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Post by calden on Jan 30, 2006 16:07:05 GMT
maaltan:
I also agree with the very fine advice to videotape yourself, then compare it with, for example, Jie Bingchen's video on the internet. Good posture will give you really good shoulder, upper arm, and forearm support, all of which are essential for good erhu playing.
Here's what my really really good Seattle teacher, Warren Chang, told me about bow tension. It may work for you as a starting point:
First, loosen the hair so there's no tension. Second, hold the bow in playing position, about 1/3 of the way from the tip, against the strings., With tension applied from the wrist (can't really push the hair with the inside fingers because there's no tension), gently push the bow against the strings. It will easily be pushed right up to the strings.
Third, tighten the bowhair JUST to the point where, when you push the bow against the strings as described above, the bow is just NOT touching the strings, maybe 1/8" off. We're not talking a lot of wrist pressure - just enough to push the bow a little. The tension is providing a little bit of resistance.
To most beginners this will feel like way too little tension- they're thinking about violin bow tension. But when you see the erhu masters play on the outside string you'll notice the bow is WAY down on the barrel. Too much tension will make things bouncy-bounce all over the place.
When I practice I work very hard for about five-ten minutes on proper bow pressure at all points of the bow. THis does make my right hand very tired, especially my wrist and the muscles right between my thumb and fingers. I'm careful to take a break every so often and stretch my whole arm way out and up and slowly wiggle my fingers - while not playing for a few minutes. THis is also good for my shoulder and upper arm which is also getting a workout. Do not overstress your muscles - you're making them do very alien things and you do not want to injure them. They will build in time.
My two cents' worth. THese things have worked for me, and they might be helpful to you. Carlos
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Post by davidmdahl on Jan 30, 2006 21:27:56 GMT
Everybody has told me that when learning guitar if your left fingers are not bleeding by the end of the second practice session, your not doing it right. This isn't guitar, of course, but i assumed similar results. I would add that the only blood I have shed while practicing erhu was due to an attack from my cat. Apparently she felt the need to come to the aid of the poor animal I was strangling. <g> Lately she has become more resigned to my practicing, as long as I give her attention first. Best wishes, David
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Post by maaltan on Jan 31, 2006 2:10:00 GMT
I must be doing pretty good then. My cat went for the bow once but the bow won the battle. I reversed direction on a forceful note and about impaled her. Now she just sits her head on the resonator box once in a while adding an interesting drum roll affect to the music. thanks for the bow tensioning advice. I think it is helping. the (almost) floppy bow is feeling better all around. I am stumbling when i have to change strings now, but i was used to it changing at the smallest twitch of the fingers. One more question tonight though. It's about my bridge. I was thinking about trying out one of the "good" ones since i seem to be having trouble making anything but ear piercing squeaks when stopped below the halfway part on each string. I am not exactly sure what its made out of. It seems to have a uniform color and has a "fuzzy" feel to it. sort of like cheap imitation suede but barely even perceptible. I have a couple good pics from my previous post. maaltan.freewebpage.org/erhu/ Also I appear to have a "wolf" tone ( i guess its a new term for me) .. somewhere right below(in tone) e#5 I feel lots of vibration from both the instrument and through the bow. the sound feels like its breaking also, but that might just me reacting to the vibrations and altering the bowing stroke. It always takes me by suprise. Since it is not a real note, its probably not that big of a deal but I figured I would mention it.
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Post by sanmenxia on Jan 31, 2006 11:12:39 GMT
I find many erhu have a bad tone at F sharp 5 and G5, I don't know if it's a wolf tone, the note doesn't ring clearly, it has a sort of dull "thud" sound, like the string isn't vibrating properly. Moving the bridge and nut around might improve it.
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Post by paulv on Jan 31, 2006 13:54:03 GMT
I find many erhu have a bad tone at F sharp 5 and G5, I don't know if it's a wolf tone, the note doesn't ring clearly, it has a sort of dull "thud" sound, like the string isn't vibrating properly. Moving the bridge and nut around might improve it. One time my erhu had a lousy tone at G5 and my teacher told me it was caused by a bad bridge -- I replaced the bridge and G5 with all the other notes sounded great. My erhu came with a bamboo bridge and I replaced it with a wood bridge my teacher gave me. Regards, Paul
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Post by YouLanFengChune on Jan 31, 2006 15:12:34 GMT
F# 5 is very...... problematic. Most erhus have it.
It was told to me by some professor in Shanghai, that thats the point where the finger to the bow, is exactly twice the distance of the bridge to the bow. Its very common.
To reduce it, use thicker cloth below the bridge.
For good erhus, a small rolled up piece, enough to relive pressure off the bridge, but rolled small enough to cover up as little of the skin as possible is ideal.
work around. Its an art
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Post by sanmenxia on Jan 31, 2006 15:12:43 GMT
I've got a erhu with a bridge made from dark wood which has bad tone at G5 , I need to try one made fron lighter wood.
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Post by YouLanFengChune on Jan 31, 2006 15:30:00 GMT
not true.
I use very dense maple to make exqusiite bridges selling at $5 a piece, with 1st class performer from beijing purchaisng for their own use.
It kills out the wolf tones as well due to its even resonance
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Post by sanmenxia on Jan 31, 2006 15:57:30 GMT
Hey Youlan thanks for the tip! I’ve just measured a erhu, your measurements are right. I‘ve got an erhu which doesn’t have bad tones, but I’ve got another, more expensive one which does. The bad one does have quite a big piece of felt, so I’ll try folding it up into a smaller piece. I’ll also try to make a bridge from a different wood, just see if it would make a difference.
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Post by maaltan on Feb 2, 2006 2:57:48 GMT
Ok, a few questions now about reading jianpu and other things. My current "teacher" speaks only chinese and I am having problems understanding a few things. Also, the lessons went from one octave D fingering directly to all 5 hand positions in G. First off is vibrato. how is it denoted on the sheet music. From the information that paulv sent me, its supposed to have a wavy line above the note. The sample music im trying to interpret has the wavy lines but not above the notes the guy appears to be using the vibrato on. I think the guy is improvising way to much stuff to be effectevly teaching. Also, my fingers dont work like his yet. My wrist doesn't seem to wiggle right and end up jerking the erhu in every which way. I have found a method by watching videos I can do though. It consists of simply squeezing the strings tighter. I can get 1000 times more control over the vibrato this way. Is this a correct technique? Second, what does X above the note mean? it is in the same place as the fingering characters(yi, er, san, etc). the same music has the normal open string symbol so thats not it. this might answer the above question. What is it called when you rapidly tap the next finger position below the current stopped position? how is this denoted in the music. the "slide down" and "slide up" symbols are appearing between 2 identical notes. how do you slide up or down to the same note? Another symbol im not sure about is a bolded bar above a number in the finger position location. is this the first finger symbol or something new? Last in this new list of questions. when you see something like the following (excuse the ascii art): 35 -- \_ 3 Does this mean briefly play 3 sliding to 5 then back to 3 for the rest of the beat count? shew I think thats it for now. I'm sure there will be more. again, Thanks for your all's help.
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Post by davidmdahl on Feb 2, 2006 8:25:22 GMT
My current "teacher" speaks only chinese and I am having problems understanding a few things. Also, the lessons went from one octave D fingering directly to all 5 hand positions in G. I suggest sticking with D for a while until you are comfortable with it. A "live" teacher would not give you tunes in another key until you are ready. First off is vibrato. how is it denoted on the sheet music. From the information that paulv sent me, its supposed to have a wavy line above the note. <snip> I suggest not worrying about vibrato yet. There is plenty to learn first. You want to get more of the basics to be second-nature. Vibrato adds too much more to think about. Also, my fingers dont work like his yet. My wrist doesn't seem to wiggle right and end up jerking the erhu in every which way. I have found a method by watching videos I can do though. It consists of simply squeezing the strings tighter. I can get 1000 times more control over the vibrato this way. Is this a correct technique? Well, I think it is one of the traditional techniques. My teacher has me using more of a violin vibrato technique, probably like what you see in the VCD. Again, this is something to tackle a little later, in my opinion. Last in this new list of questions. when you see something like the following (excuse the ascii art): 35 -- \_ 3 Does this mean briefly play 3 sliding to 5 then back to 3 for the rest of the beat count? Unless there is a slur above the notes, they should be fingered, but you get the general idea. Best wishes, David
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