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Post by paulv on Jan 22, 2006 3:00:20 GMT
Maaltan, I think I'm confused here. Are you replacing the metal D & A strings with something other than erhu strings? I thought we were talking about the qianjin (the silk/cotton string that wraps around the two erhu strings at the top.
Years and years ago the original erhu strings were silk -- now they're metal. I don't really think that anything else is going to work.
Are you having a problem buying replacement erhu strings? You can buy them Internet mail order from many places.
Regards, Paul...
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Post by maaltan on Jan 22, 2006 4:16:11 GMT
yeah I was. Then i broke my A string... probably because i had my qianjin too high.
I didnt have a replacement. i found some references to dental floss as a strings. Figured i would try it as I had nothing to lose. It works fine. In fact i think i like the sound better. I have since switched out my D string also. Of course i technically don't know what im doing yet but since im a week and a half away from a replacement metal string might as well play with something. I dont think i can break anything more than its already broken.
I am still playing with the variables. i think I might go up to 3 strands of floss for the A string and maybe 4-5 for the D string. this is because the strings are still a bit loose compared to the metal strings.
make sure you use unwaxed though. i almost tried waxed but it was so sticky i was afraid of what it would do to my bow.
Also, the stretching has ceased. i have been playing for an hour and my A string has not changed tune.
Not to mention that in US a spool of dental floss is about 80 cents and has enough to string an army of erhus. An 'A' string is $6 plus $5 to $10 shipping and handling.
i think i might build that PVC Erhu after all.
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Post by paulv on Jan 22, 2006 4:29:28 GMT
Maaltan, The qianjin should be set to pull the strings close enough to the stick (the erhu neck) so you can pass your index finger's large knuckle (the flat side) in between.
Also, I've sent you a PM.
Regards, Paul...
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Post by blueharp on Jan 22, 2006 7:01:59 GMT
An 'A' string is $6 plus $5 to $10 shipping and handling. Ummmm.. Erhu Strings are $1.80 per set plus $2 shipping for up to 5 sets at www.cadenzamusic.bizIf you want to go all out they have Thomastik-Infeld erhu strings for $16 a set.
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Post by sanmenxia on Jan 22, 2006 8:53:29 GMT
Hi Maaltan, If I'm reading it right, are you you using multiple strands of dental floss for the D and A strings? That's just so weird . If you're waiting for new erhu strings to arrive, I suppose you could any string with the right diameter, eg guitar stings, I don't know what weight you need though. Qianjin string: plain cotton is OK, just make sure it wraps around the D and A strings 3-5 times. On some of my erhu I use the string from rice bags, it works OK.
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Post by calden on Jan 22, 2006 14:47:14 GMT
About the qian jin:
I've recently adjusted this on the erhu I lent my student - although she's 17 years old she's a small woman with very small hands, and I've had to bring the strings closer to the neck.
I did an okay job, but I would really appreciate some kind of directions and hopefully a sequence drawing of exactly HOW to tie up the qian jin so it looks nice and neat. New erhus have it very well done. My first erhu teacher in Taipei adjusted my first erhu's qian jin while I watched - in about 30 seconds it was done and looked great - no knots anywhere in sight. It was like magic.
Help! This is frustrating me.
Carlos Steamed erhu teacher
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Post by sanmenxia on Jan 22, 2006 16:23:00 GMT
It's a bit hard to describe without pictures. You need to shape the end of the string into a loop and put it on the neck and start winding over on top of it towards the closed end, keep the open end of the loop sticking out. When you have enough windings, the closed end of the loop should still stick out, you push the string through the loop, trim it leaving about 5mm and pull it under the windings by pulling on the other end of the loop. You can also use a separate piece of string to make the loop. I'm not sure I can do it in 30sec though!
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Post by maaltan on Jan 22, 2006 16:45:28 GMT
Hi Maaltan, If I'm reading it right, are you you using multiple strands of dental floss for the D and A strings? That's just so weird . If you're waiting for new erhu strings to arrive, I suppose you could any string with the right diameter, eg guitar stings, I don't know what weight you need though. Qianjin string: plain cotton is OK, just make sure it wraps around the D and A strings 3-5 times. On some of my erhu I use the string from rice bags, it works OK. yes i am wierd. but it works. at least for me Is there anyone out there curious enough to restring thier erhu with floss and try to play it? I am curious what a real player things of it. Please keep an open mind. I have noticed that fingering and bowing is lighter to get the same volume and tone. Historically, i believe dental floss was actually silk threads. Make sure you get unwaxed. i tend to be less crazy than i come out to be edit: if you decide. string it up a few keys above d and A. let it sit and repeat. the strings do stretch quite a bit at first but mine have stablized. It only drifted about 5 cents overnight. another edit: i have pictures now. I know its probably cheap but there it is. let me know if you see anything majorly wrong (other than floss strings) I forgot to photo the bow. maaltan.freewebpage.org/erhu/The site is a bit slow but its free so cant expect too much
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Post by paulv on Jan 22, 2006 23:02:18 GMT
I did an okay job, but I would really appreciate some kind of directions and hopefully a sequence drawing of exactly HOW to tie up the qian jin so it looks nice and neat. Carlos, Check with David as I remember he had a link to somewhere that had pix/video of tying th qianjin. Regards Paul....
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Post by calden on Jan 22, 2006 23:42:55 GMT
Thanks.
Also - Be sure and check out the video I put up of my performance Sat. Jan 21 for Chinese New year. It's in the performances forum section. AND - I put up some pictures of my erhus in the pics of your erhus forum section.
Carlos
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Post by davidmdahl on Jan 23, 2006 9:44:53 GMT
Is there anyone out there curious enough to restring thier erhu with floss and try to play it? I am curious what a real player things of it. Please keep an open mind. I have noticed that fingering and bowing is lighter to get the same volume and tone. Historically, i believe dental floss was actually silk threads. Make sure you get unwaxed. A few months ago during a trip to San Francisco, I visited a music store that had a dahu, an erhu-shaped instrument a little larger than a zhonghu. This strange huqin was strung in silk. It is an interesting thing to see, but I was not impressed with the instrument. Of course there are so many other things that might have been out-of-whack that I am not sure that the strings were the main problem. I might try the dental floss sometime just for kicks. Maybe the next time a string breaks will be an opportunity. Best wishes, David
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Post by davidmdahl on Jan 23, 2006 9:53:12 GMT
I did an okay job, but I would really appreciate some kind of directions and hopefully a sequence drawing of exactly HOW to tie up the qian jin so it looks nice and neat. Carlos, Check with David as I remember he had a link to somewhere that had pix/video of tying th qianjin. Regards Paul.... Try the following link: www.senmaike.net/erhu/20040704/pic20040704_e.htmlBest wishes, David
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Post by calden on Jan 23, 2006 15:11:31 GMT
Thanks, David.
Carlos
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elvenefris
Novice
As the Sun for the Earth
Posts: 3
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Post by elvenefris on Jan 24, 2006 0:29:26 GMT
Hi guys, another quick question; I've been drooling at Erhus now for the last couple of days, still unable to make up my mind about price range, wood, etc., and I was wondering; Should I go for bronze or wooden pegs? I like the conveniency(sp?) of not having to tune my instrument every half-hour. will bronze or wood hold the instrument in-tune the longest? Also, seeing as I don't get to try my erhu before I buy it; What type of wood would be the safest bet for me sound-wise? I'm a bit biased to warm, bassy sound Erlend
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Post by maaltan on Jan 24, 2006 2:52:23 GMT
my cheap one has the brass like mechanical tuning pegs (worm drive gears i assume, havn't dissasembled to check ) it holds tune quite well.
while I am waiting for strings, i am testing other materials just for the heck of it.
Crochet string isn't strong enough. it snaps before proper tension is achieved. (at least my spool, it is on the cheap end of crochet thread.)
Acrylic knitting yarn will not grab the bow reliably.
Copper wire does not have the tensile strength needed. it stretches and draws out rapidly eventually snapping (think like taffy)
I reinstalled my original D string do try some stuff out. I have a problem. When i stop the string starting about halfway down (somewhere around D5) it only squeals. bowing harder and faster fixes that. stopping it very close to the resonator it again squeals. i cannot move the bow fast and hard enough to play these notes. What am i doing wrong?
Also, I coded a little 5 minute application that displays a random note in jiangpu notation. I am using it to help remember fingering locations and enhance my mobility between them. At the moment I am using it to practice the first hand position of course. If anybody else is interested I will try to clean it up some to make it semi user friendly. I can compile to windows easily. i might be able to port it if enough people are interested.
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Post by calden on Jan 24, 2006 3:00:51 GMT
Hi guys, another quick question; I've been drooling at Erhus now for the last couple of days, still unable to make up my mind about price range, wood, etc., and I was wondering; Should I go for bronze or wooden pegs? I like the conveniency(sp?) of not having to tune my instrument every half-hour. will bronze or wood hold the instrument in-tune the longest? Also, seeing as I don't get to try my erhu before I buy it; What type of wood would be the safest bet for me sound-wise? I'm a bit biased to warm, bassy sound Erlend Erlend: I wouldn't get the brass mechanical pegs if I were buying all over - it seems contrary to the elegant and organic character of this instrument. I have the standard wood pegs, and have never, ever had a problem tuning them or having them stay in tune. They function like regular violin pegs. I had put little violin fine-tuners on the strings up above the qian jin, but my teacher laughed and said I don't need them. He's right - my erhu stays in tune and it's not hard to tune it at all. This is true for my previous erhu I had, my two high -quality erhus I have now, and the begginer erhu I bought for teaching. I just can't see any benefit in getting the metal tuning pegs. I can't say what kind of wood or construction is best for a warm, bassy sound, but I do know that you can easily adjust the sound towards mellow and bassy and warm by putting more felt or rubber under the strings on the tail side of the bridge. Good luck, and you'll be very happy when you finally get to hold this thing! Carlos
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Post by davidmdahl on Jan 24, 2006 3:53:37 GMT
Hi guys, another quick question; I've been drooling at Erhus now for the last couple of days, still unable to make up my mind about price range, wood, etc., and I was wondering; Should I go for bronze or wooden pegs? I like the conveniency(sp?) of not having to tune my instrument every half-hour. will bronze or wood hold the instrument in-tune the longest? Also, seeing as I don't get to try my erhu before I buy it; What type of wood would be the safest bet for me sound-wise? I'm a bit biased to warm, bassy sound Erlend I agree with Carlos. Go for wood pegs rather than the gears. Even the really high-end erhus use wood pegs, while some of the relatively inexpensive erhus come with the gears. It is my impression that redwood is usually common to mid-range erhus, while various varieties of sandalwood are used for the expensive ones. Sandalwood is a more expensive wood, so it is unlikely to be used in a budget instrument. Of course, there is no guarantee that a erhu in sandalwood is going to be a great instrument since the workmanship and grade of the wood and skin are also factors. To be honest I am not quite convinced that a high grade of sandalwood makes a better sound than other woods, but a maker is likely to use the best wood with other high-quality parts and take special care to make a quality instrument. I did put a fine-tuner on my D string. The peg jumps around when I try to tune, and the fine-tuner just makes it a lot easier. Best wishes, David
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Post by sanmenxia on Jan 24, 2006 17:49:21 GMT
Wooden or metal pegs: I think it's just personal preference, although top grade erhus tend to have wooden. Both have advantages and disadvantages and both will stay in tune. Wooden is more traditional, a bit harder to fine tune, is simpler. Metal is easier to tune, not traditional. I have fine tuners on my wooden peg erhu, it's not visually attractive, but it's easier to fine tune when I play along to different recordings. I think the skin is much more important than the wood. Compared to the skin, the wooden body doesn't vibrate very much.
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Post by maaltan on Jan 26, 2006 6:43:12 GMT
another dumb question. I have been looking at pictures of other's erhus and i am wondering about something. almost all of them (even the one pictured on front of cd case i just got) have a great quantity of rosin dust on and around the resinator box. Mine on the other hand, does not. The D string (the old metal one i switched backto ) has a fine fuzz around it but thats about it. Since I got my erhu a weel ago, i have probably played it about maybe 15-20 hours or more. I have rosined the bow about once ever 2 hours of play. The bow seems to be getting stickier and is requiring less rosin to keep it playing. I guess that means its getting broken in (or down?) now. Is the buildup ive been seeing the result of many hundreds of hours of playing? Am I not using enough rosin? Well... so far I can get that twinkle twinkle little star this little booklet tricked me into playing (came with VCD) .. the chinese translated to small star in the sky. Also For some reason the other night i was half asleep and I must have channeled some music spirit because i had a decent rendition of greensleeves going then realized what i was playing and tried to pin it down to true techique but it was impossible. sort of like the first night hendrix guitar, gone forever probably. ... Maybe my erhu is haunted. -------------------------------------------------------- Hmm.. just for a laugh, also i was bored. I pieced something together real quick.... [removed image tag because "free" site was counting that error page loading against my bandwidth quota blah.... which of course is larger than the image itself.] hmm incase the image tag does not work for some reason (i think host is blocking direct image linking). here is a link to a html wrapper file. maaltan.freewebpage.org/erhu/erhuhendrix.htmahh dang it free service blah....
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Post by sanmenxia on Jan 26, 2006 8:29:36 GMT
Hey that's a great picture! Haha. I like to keep my erhu clean, so I wipe the rosin dust off regularly. esp from the strings. I thinks it's probably better to keep it from building up, it can't be good for the wood and skin. I suppose some players just leave it there once it has built up.
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Post by sanmenxia on Jan 26, 2006 11:42:39 GMT
I think if there's rosin dust coming off the bow, then there is enough rosin on your bow.
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Post by paulv on Jan 26, 2006 14:16:14 GMT
.... I must have channeled some music spirit because i had a decent rendition of greensleeves going.... Maaltan, If I remember correctly, Greensleeves in in a minor key. Regards, paul....
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Post by calden on Jan 26, 2006 16:45:30 GMT
Great pic, maaltan! Hendrix is one of my heroes, and I'm positive he would have taken to the erhu.
I have a buildup of rosin on my erhu, and it's simply that I'm lazy about it. I ought to clean it off. The only downside I can think of to leave it there is that it looks messy. I know several symphony-level violinists who say that it should not be left on a violin because over time it chemically bonds with the soft varnish finish and breaks it down, and is impossible to get off. THus, as it builds up and can't be taken off (without taking off the varnish and redoing that section) it hardens and this restricts the wood movement, thus restricting the tone.
Erhus don't seem to rely on the wood - no wood top - for tone production, so I don't think it would inhibit the tone. I also don't think that ehrus are finished with a soft violin-type varnish, which is basically shellac, linseed oil, and gum resins. It feels more like an oil varnish, which is harder than violin varnish. Yin hao, can you tell us? But rosin won't break down the finish to the same way.
Carlos
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Post by sanmenxia on Jan 26, 2006 18:38:46 GMT
I don't know for sure, the finish on good erhus seems to be wax, cheap erhu have some sort of varnish, often quite thick.
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Post by calden on Jan 26, 2006 20:10:11 GMT
maaltan:
I revise my opinion of the Hendrix picture.
It's not a "great pic" as I said before - it's brilliant. I opened it up in photoshop, intensified the colors a bit, posterized it some more, and made the erhu a dark red-brown. I've got it printed up as a poster. Thanks tons - it's amazing.
carlos
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