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Post by davidmdahl on Sept 4, 2004 19:28:56 GMT
I play Chinese and Vietnamese music on dizi and dan bau (monochord) respectively in the Portland, Oregon area. Several years ago I bought the dizi course and instrument from Tim Liu of www.2measures.com and have been very happy with the course and instrument. I am spending much more time learning Vietnamese music on the dan bau, but I listen a lot to Chinese traditional music. I tend to favor expressive lyrical tunes over show-pieces, so the xiao might be a better fit for me since it seems less likely to demonstrate bird calls than dizi. <g>. Now that this forum is not beholden to www.chineseculture.net, I am curious to know the true reputation of their instruments, particularly the xiao. I guess I will ask about the erhu in the other section. <g> There have been root-end bamboo xiao flutes on Ebay lately from sound-of-nature in Hong Kong. How do they measure up? Best wishes, David
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Post by asharpe on Sept 5, 2004 6:33:14 GMT
My introduction:
In 1999, I went to Chengdu, Sichuan, China to vist my wife's family. I bought a few dizi, and a couple of xiao. Since then, I've taught myself to play them (somewhat), and to read jianpu music scores.
Last month, I went back to China, and went to a factory in Hangzhou that made dizi and xiao (http://www.jiayinyueqi.com/, on Xixi Road). They had made the xiao that I bought in 1999, but I wanted a better one. In fact, I went there to get a root-end xiao, and they had one, but the top-of-the-line standard xiao was much better for me, because it had the standard 8 holes (7 in front, 1 in back), instead of the 6 holes (5 in front, 1 in back) that the root-end xiao had.
I know there are a lot of people that think the root-end shakuhachi (chi ba) are better, and the prices go though the roof for those flutes, but I just don't think they are worth it. Therefore, I also don't think root-end xiao are really worth the extra price.
I also picked up a hulusi in Hangzhou, and I'm having a lot of fun with it. The breath technique is exactly opposite of the xiao: with the xiao (as with most -- if not all -- flutes), you blow very gently for the low notes, and stronger for the high ones. The hulusi must be blown forcefully for the low notes, and quite gently for the high ones. Perhaps this is normal for all single-reeded instruments; I don't know since the hulusi is my first.
I also have 3 xun, but for some reason, the holes are not the same size and place on all of them (I know that the holes are supposed to be different sizes, of course). Needless to say, this has made playing difficult. I have tried to work out fingerings for them, using an electronic tuner, but have not had much luck.
Anyway, that's pretty much where I am now. I have contacted the dizi player from Melody of China (melodyofchina.com) for xiao lessons, but we havn't yet connected, as he was in Shanghai when I was in Hangzhou.
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Post by davidmdahl on Sept 5, 2004 7:19:52 GMT
Thanks for the comments. I have made some baby steps learning jianpu and found it fun and not as difficult as it first seemed. The challenge for me is more knowing how to play a tune in the correct style from only a score. There is so much musical expression that is not written down. I do much better learning a tune from a recording and notating it myself. Of course when I do that, I use Western notation. Maybe as I listen and play more tunes, the style will come.
I would love to find a teacher for xiao. The xiao is similar to the Vietnamese tieu, and I am sure they are related. Players or teachers of the tieu seem very rare, but I expect that skill on the xiao is somewhat transferrable to the VN instrument. I am not quite sure however that the fingering would be very close since the tieu has six holes to eight on the xiao. Another difference that really messes me up is that both thumb holes are on the underside of the tieu. That makes holding the darn thing a real challenge for some notes.
I found a cheaply-made hulusi in a Portland store but passed on it. It does look like a good one could be fun. I have a bawu which is fun but very limited. Maybe it is more accurate to state that I have not found the key to working with its limitations in an expressive way.
Best wishes,
David Portland, Oregon
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Post by Charlie Huang on Oct 29, 2004 10:35:41 GMT
After swinging between Dizi and Xiao, I've finally made considerable progress on playing the xiao (namely being able to blow a tune out of it, LOL). I can play Guan Shan Yue and Xiao Cheng de Gu Shi out of it.
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Post by YouLanFengChune on Nov 16, 2004 11:44:12 GMT
Hi! My name is Yinhao, and I'm from Singapore. Currently i teach dizi and xiao full time in various schools and associations. Personally, the Root end Xiao, or Da Tou Xiao, we call it in Singapore and Southern China is not exactly worth it (Sharpe's right) Its not really in tune, but personally, i like Dong Xiao and Qin Xiao, when we do play with Guziqn. I played solo Dong Xiao, accompanying Min Hui Fen, the Erhu Maestro before, and it really brought out the guts in me, knowing that xiao is more expressive then i ever thought it was. The piece was Er Quan Yin Yue. However, we must acknowledge that symphony-wise, the xiao is really a softer instrument than dizi. And though we may not likee dizi (or some of us) it is still important... Hmm.. You Lan Feng Chun is my favouirite piece, whtas yours??
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Post by davidmdahl on Nov 16, 2004 16:59:29 GMT
Thank you, Yinhao for joining us and introducing yourself. I don't know enough of the literature to have a meaningful opinion, but two of my favorite Chinese tunes for xiao or dizi are "Autumn Moon over a Tranquil Lake" and "Journey to Suzhou". I don't know the Chinese titles, so I hope these English translations are meaningful.
I don't have a xiao yet, so I play Autumn Moon on dizi. I plan to learn Journey to Suzhou in the near future, but will have to do it by listening phrase by phrase from a recording since I don't have notation. Maybe this is the best way to learn anyway.
Best wishes,
David
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Post by YouLanFengChune on Nov 17, 2004 4:08:02 GMT
Hi David! You mean Gu Su Xing (Journey to Gu Su) and Ping Hu Qiu Yue (Autumn Moon over a Tranquil Lake). Great!! These are two classic pieces. Its a pity if you don't own a Ping Hu Qiu Yue really need a Xiao. A Xiao in G Major is what u need. Then, focus on the tRill in the 3, as it brings out the Jiangnan flavour. I recently bought 3 of the Xiaos from a fellow instructor, who has this website. The Xiao listed here is quite impressive, Maybe you'll wanna try it out. cadenzamusic.biz/dizi.htmI may buy the (violet bamboo) ZiZhu dizi here to. i own an entire set of Zizhu bangdi or picolo, and they sound so deliciously sweet. I am looking out for good Qudi... Whats the dizi in your country like? I am looking forward to findingout more as I may go to USA next year for a cultural exchange programme.
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Post by twilight on Nov 17, 2004 4:23:51 GMT
I play Chinese and Vietnamese music on dizi and dan bau (monochord) respectively in the Portland, Oregon area. Several years ago I bought the dizi course and instrument from Tim Liu of www.2measures.com and have been very happy with the course and instrument. I am spending much more time learning Vietnamese music on the dan bau, but I listen a lot to Chinese traditional music. I tend to favor expressive lyrical tunes over show-pieces, so the xiao might be a better fit for me since it seems less likely to demonstrate bird calls than dizi. <g>. Now that this forum is not beholden to www.chineseculture.net, I am curious to know the true reputation of their instruments, particularly the xiao. I guess I will ask about the erhu in the other section. <g> There have been root-end bamboo xiao flutes on Ebay lately from sound-of-nature in Hong Kong. How do they measure up? Best wishes, David hello David, I am Vnmese and I have the dan bau. Unfortunately, I can't make a sound on it. I have a book to learn from. It tells me to place my left hand gently on the string, but the sound just gets muffled huhuhuhuhu do you have any tips as to how I can make it play? I live in Houston, TX. If possible, can you send me a video tape showing me how to play it? I'm willing to pay all expenses. I currently play the dan tranh, dan nguyet, and would love to learn the dan bau too. Thank you
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Post by twilight on Nov 17, 2004 4:26:50 GMT
Sorry the previous message is kinda out of topic of the dizi but I'm not sure where to post it.
If needed, it can be moved to the appropriate folder ;D
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Post by YouLanFengChune on Nov 17, 2004 4:54:35 GMT
Sorry, I may be interupting.
Dan Bbau, or mono chord, is what i think the Du Xian Qin, as we know it. It is vietnamese.
I used to play it for a Chinese orchestra Composition "Taiwan Suite"
I played it by using the edge of my hand lightly touuching the strings, den i pluck using my little finger. Its supposed to have some harmonics..
Please advise as well, i t6hink its really interesting!
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Post by davidmdahl on Nov 17, 2004 5:07:49 GMT
Since the dan bau or du xian qin is off-topic in the Dizi & Xiao section, how about if we move to the "Others" section? If we get a big enough thread going on, maybe our esteemed moderator, Cardcaptor Charlie will add a monochord section.
See you at the "Others" section!
Best wishes,
David Dahl
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Post by davidmdahl on Nov 17, 2004 6:25:17 GMT
Hello YouLanFengChune, I have an excellent dizi that I purchased from Tim Liu of www.2measures.com. Tim orders his flutes from somewhere in China, but I don't know his source. I have noticed the cadenzamusic.biz website and was curious about the quality of the instruments. It is good to hear that at least the dizi's are good. I am tempted to order a xiao from them. Do you recommend the violet spotted bamboo over the bitter white? Best wishes, David
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Post by YouLanFengChune on Nov 17, 2004 10:02:16 GMT
Violet Bamboo Xiiao is good as it is of harder and more elastic. There is this mysterious chemical compound of Silicon Oxide in Violet Bamboo, supposed to the mystical factor why spruce violins are so wonderful.
I recommend Violet Bamboo for Soprano Dizi. Its tone is fantastically sweet. Almost all Violet Bamboo soprano dizi, if well madee, will be very sweet indeed. I have had my own set for 4 years, always used in recordings and solos.
I recommend Violet Bamboo for Xiao. Bitter white bamboo Xiao is too flimsy. Trust me on this. I learnt my lesson big time. It was a bad experience.
But the Violet Bamboo Alto flute, well, its rare to find a good one. I'm using a 20 yr old Bitter Bamboo one my teacher gave me. It was from Hangzhou, not Shuzhou. I visited Shuzhou last yr. Its dizi quality is really not as god as before. Hangzhou bamboos are well watered and well kept. The Tone is really suitable for Journey to Shuzhou (no pun intended!)
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Post by Charlie Huang on Nov 17, 2004 10:31:03 GMT
Well, I'm thinking of getting two xiaos in the future (a standard one in G key, and a professional one in F key as I play guqin).
Any places you know where I can get good ones from? I know CCN has a selection, but since I don't know about the quality of the xiaos they sell very much (I got one from them and it is OK)...
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Post by YouLanFengChune on Nov 17, 2004 11:22:13 GMT
Well, I'm thinking of getting two xiaos in the future (a standard one in G key, and a professional one in F key as I play guqin). Any places you know where I can get good ones from? I know CCN has a selection, but since I don't know about the quality of the xiaos they sell very much (I got one from them and it is OK)... Hi Charlie!! You need a G key Dong Xiao and an F key Qin Xiao . cadenzamusic.biz/dizi.htmThey sell very good Xiaos. I just bought 3 from my friend who owns the Cadenza Company. I bought 1 F Qin Xiao (for accompanying Guqin) 1 F Dong Xiao and 1 G Dong Xiao. Playing was a breeze and every note came out. Not always though...The Qin Xiao was problematic initially, cos it was really harder to play.In fact, when i first bought it, it was so difficult to play, i cursed and swore at the maker, but when he explained to me the intricacies of playing a Qin Xiao, i was suddenly enlightened!! I used Qin Xiao to Accompany the Guqin many times. Its thinner than a Dong Xiao, sounds softer, but absolutely beautiful. If I am not wrong, the maker of Cadenza's Xiaos exports his Xiao to taiwan. My friends in taiwan bought exactly the same things for USD $250 and found out that at least 100 students in University of Taipei were using it for Guqin Studies!
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Post by YouLanFengChune on Nov 17, 2004 11:33:39 GMT
Guys!!
One of my students bought some dizi just now from an unknown retailer. It really fumed me. There is one thing we all should know!
Good Dizi or Xiaos are NEVER NEVER painted. You should be allowed to inspect the natural grains or spots on the bamboo!
Other than the sequential binding, anything that obstructs our inspection of the quality of the bambo, either inside or outside, should be avoided!!
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Post by davidmdahl on Nov 17, 2004 18:07:46 GMT
Regarding the xiao's at Cadenza, and I suppose the other instruments as well, I am interested to know about the consistency. I don't doubt that if you can choose from a pile of instruments, you can find a good one. For those of us who must order from overseas, we are at the mercy of the one who fills the order. I have found in general with Asian instruments that quality varies widely, even from the same maker.
Does Cadenza ship only good instruments, or it is the luck of the draw?
Best wishes,
David
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Post by YouLanFengChune on Nov 17, 2004 22:12:23 GMT
Hi David!
I have always been "sadly" roped into helping my friend who owns the cadenza site select intruments for overseas exporting. Though he always treats me lunch, it always pains me: He insists that we select only the very best from the pile. It took me 2 hours just to select a dizi once, and i realised that I liked it myself, but he told me it was for a customer in Vienna, so it had to go.
I think cadenza is the only site who does thankless jobs of selecting each and every instrument for customers,and QC it. Business had been Ok for him, but profits never been high. The costs of selection it seems are too great. A lot of instruments are rejected daily by Cadenza, and its bad for business if you dump your goods.
Its still up to you. I have a feeling, if you buy his dizi or xiao today, i'll have to do the selection for you tomorrow!!
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Post by davidmdahl on Nov 18, 2004 6:00:18 GMT
Hello Yinhao,
Well, I surprised myself and ordered a G xiao from Cadenza. This is a good opportunity for you to astound me with a terrific instrument. Please take all the time you need to pick one out for me. <g>
Best wishes,
David
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Post by YouLanFengChune on Nov 18, 2004 6:03:05 GMT
Hoho!!
Seems like you really bought one. My friend had not told me about it yet. I'll be meeting him for dinner tonight. Perhaps I'll have to choose for you tmr.
Thanks for the confidence. Hmm, you want any free gifts? He loves giving freebies, like Dizi membrane, pipa plucks, etcetc
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Post by davidmdahl on Nov 18, 2004 21:27:21 GMT
Hello Yinhao,
I suppose dizi supplies will eventually come in handy. What would really come in handy are some tips on xiao basics. I can play the transverse flute with no problem, but holding the xiao properly may be an issue. Is a xiao method available? Western notation is not a possibility I imagine, but I could probably puzzle out jian-pu. Illustrations and photos will be much more useful than a bunch of Chinese text that I cannot read. <g>
Best wishes,
David
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Post by YouLanFengChune on Nov 22, 2004 11:36:11 GMT
Hello David! Well I was made to select your Xiao today! Its really a good instrument! Just to let you know, I made a recording using your Xiao and my friend decided to put it up for sample. cadenzamusic.biz/xiao/davidmahlxiao.mp3The citation is on cadenzamusic.biz/xiao.htmYou should really look forward to your Xiao. Here's some precautions: Do not expose it near a radiator, under the sun or extreme low temperature or in Humidity less than 60 for prolonged peiods. Try not to drop your instrument or let it suffer knocks. I have pitched your instrument for you. At room temperature of 25 degrees centrigrade, it is tuned to perfect A at 442Hertz. To prevent any mishap as the temperature in your area is rather cold, I have gotten the maker to bind your Xiao for you at 3 spots. Your Xiao is on the way. Enjoy!
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Post by Charlie Huang on Nov 23, 2004 10:28:09 GMT
Wow! That sounds very sweet! You'd be a happy man, David-san! ;D
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Post by davidmdahl on Nov 23, 2004 16:09:19 GMT
Hello Yinhao,
Beautiful playing! I did not want it to end. I can see that I will not be able to blame a bad sound on the instrument. <g> I hope to eventually be worthy of the xiao.
Probably the biggest risk to my new xiao will be the dryness. During the winter months in my town, it is wet and cold outside, but warm and dry indoors. I usually try to keep my flutes in airtight plastic bags when not being played so they don't get to dry out too much.
Thank you!
Best wishes,
David
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Post by YouLanFengChune on Nov 24, 2004 0:21:36 GMT
Hi David and Charlie!
Your new xiao willbe easy to play and get even betta as u play it more and more for it to get used to your breathe and tone, so dun be suprised. Cadenza packed your xiao in a PVC airtight tube. So, u might have to yank off he top, but hey, it keeps your xiao safe.
It ws made in the same batch as the one Zhang Weiliang (the chairman of International Chinese Bamboo Flute Development and Reasearch Council, based in Central Conservatory Beijing) is playing now.
The same maker as your Xiao is also the commisioned Xiao and dizi maker for Principal dizi players of Hong Kong Traditional Chinese ochestra, Taiwan Kaoshiong Professional Orchestra, Singapore Chinese Orchestra, and the list just goes on.
The maker Ng Teck Seng would like to make dizi for the international market, AT A BALANCED PRICE. Taiwan University Guqin players mostly are using his Qin Xiao, sold at exorbitant prices, some exceeding USD200. It is not good for the community as it would deprive more people from learning good chinese music.
Hence, Cadenza and Ng's idea and notion about widespread learning of Chinese Music is similar, that is to try to bring down prices of musical instruments worldwide. The vision is when everyone can afford a reasonable instrument at reasnable prices.
Hmm.... was that a long sppech?
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