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Post by YouLanFengChune on Nov 24, 2004 3:39:37 GMT
And in case u asked, the piece I played for demo was entitled Burying Flowers, a scene in Dreams of the Red Mansion where the sad protagonist was burying flowers, lamenting that she is just a girl, someone who will not be cared for, unless she meets someone who really does.
The end of the story, she died, separated from her lover...kinda sad and cheesy huh?
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Jin
Novice
musician of none.
Posts: 7
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Post by Jin on Nov 26, 2004 21:06:38 GMT
The best way to purchase "dizi, xiao" is to goto the factories directly and choose from the dozens. I have very little faith for the products on sale from the web site "ChineseCultureNet", it seems to me they are more of businessmen than musicians.
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Post by Charlie Huang on Nov 26, 2004 21:14:15 GMT
The best way to purchase "dizi, xiao" is to goto the factories directly and choose from the dozens. I have very little faith for the products on sale from the web site "ChineseCultureNet", it seems to me they are more of businessmen than musicians. I think CCN specialises in guqin and guzheng more than anything else. I think they started of with guqin and worked their way towards more stuff. They are the best place (on the net) to buy guqin since one model has LXT to supervise and select (best model by my books), but I'm not sure about the other instruments. The dizi and xiao I got from them two years ago are OK (ish) but then again they were standard models. Of course, I'm gonna buy my next xiao from Cadenza now that I know it's beauty, lol! Oh, forgot to ask. You Lan-san, do you ship to the UK as well?
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Post by davidmdahl on Nov 26, 2004 21:15:31 GMT
The best way to purchase "dizi, xiao" is to goto the factories directly and choose from the dozens. I have very little faith for the products on sale from the web site "ChineseCultureNet", it seems to me they are more of businessmen than musicians. Hello Jin, Welcome to our forum! Thanks for the comments. The dilemma for most of us who do not live in Asia, is that it is simply not an option to travel to China to choose among instruments, so we do depend on intermediaries. I purchased a dizi in this way, and just recently a xiao. The cost for the instruments was greater than if I had gone to China myself, but it is worth it to me if I get good instruments. I am curious if you have personal experience with CCN that you would be willing to share in private if not on this forum. Thanks. Best wishes, David
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Jin
Novice
musician of none.
Posts: 7
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Post by Jin on Nov 26, 2004 21:30:53 GMT
howdy! actually i was on the CCN site wandering around to check out their new products and ended up here. i love all kinds of musical instruments, eastern, western, you name it, lol. of course, my being chinese has made me leaning a little towards chinese instruments. ;D but i know its hard to find an ideal instrument here, and CCN does in a way provided some very beneficial help. I just have the feeling that they're too commercialized. for myself, one way i get my instruments it to contact the factories in China directly since many has opened up their own websites. For a top-notch master made dizi or xiao, you can get it for no more than $200 with whatever cost for shipping, it is really the top product you can get compared to the $200 you spend with CCN. Also, check out www.melodyofchina.com/ for the instrument section. (not trying to advertise for anyone, i am simply saying the truth or what i believe is to be the truth. lol)
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Post by Charlie Huang on Nov 26, 2004 21:45:21 GMT
Yes, I know Melody of China. They got a good selection of instruments much larger than CCN, but I've heard that some of their instruments (esp. the factory made ones) are not up to scratch...
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Post by YouLanFengChune on Nov 26, 2004 23:13:06 GMT
Being personally involved with instrument selection for cadenzamusic.bizmakes me very confident of their stuff. I think it provides the best selection criteria. For example, a Good C diao Southern Qudi 1) Must not me lighter than 170 Grams 2) must have internal diameter of no less than 16mm 3)must have exterior diameter of no less than 22 mm 4)must have no more than 3 joints of the bamboo 5)must contain a certain elasticity percentage of SiO2(to be determined) 5)must have no more than 20 cent pitch variation within a temperature change of 5 degree centrigrade 6)must achieve pitch relations of Octaves, Thirds, Fifths and fourths without distortion 7)must achieve vast dynamics 8)must be able to play 2 octaves and 1 fifth (thats lwest 5, to highest 5 (with a dot) to Highest highest 2 (with 2 dots on top) David's Xiao for example, can play all the way up to Highest highest 3. And every type of instrument has a scientic criteria for chosing. I'm just more familiar with dizi, and perhaps erhu. and i personally test it before my friend sends it out.
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Jin
Novice
musician of none.
Posts: 7
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Post by Jin on Nov 27, 2004 1:35:35 GMT
Oh Yeah. Let me introduce myself a little. Just graduated from college not too long ago, now lives in New York City. I was lucky enough to have found a teacher in the area. I have only studied dizi for just about a year, I am a terriably bad student. Haven't really progressed much for the last few months, mainly due to my extreme laziness (also because I don't know music theory very well). lol. But I'm bery glad to be here with all of you guys. ;D Hopefully we can all progress together.
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Post by yaoyao on Nov 27, 2004 3:08:55 GMT
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Post by YouLanFengChune on Nov 27, 2004 14:56:51 GMT
I think i had better clarify once and for all!
It is owned by my good friend, who wishes to save up money to study in Shanghai Conservatory. I wish to, but i do so by teaching lessons, both private and for schools.
hence, the 2 of us are helping each other out. I help with selection of Dizi and sometimes erhu. He helps me with music theory teaching and things like that.
However, i do not earn from Cadenza's sales, except when i have to do instrument repair for Cadenza (Yes, Cadenza actually runs a limited warranty for instruments). Hence, you find me talking a lot about instrument repair, maintainance, preparation and even some examples. Thus the motto of Cadenza : For Musicians, From Musicians...
I would encourage that site to people as we believe that good instruments are meant to be shared, and the instruments in USA cost far far too much, and the quality is not as good. We wanna promote music, but more important I wanna have friends around the world.
So you find me poking my nose everywhere, and talking to whoever, whenever about whatever..related or nearly that isi!
I think that is the way our forum should stya, whether we have 29 ppl or 2999 ppl, right Charli?
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Post by Charlie Huang on Nov 27, 2004 22:36:01 GMT
I think i had better clarify once and for all! It is owned by my good friend, who wishes to save up money to study in Shanghai Conservatory. I wish to, but i do so by teaching lessons, both private and for schools. hence, the 2 of us are helping each other out. I help with selection of Dizi and sometimes erhu. He helps me with music theory teaching and things like that. However, i do not earn from Cadenza's sales, except when i have to do instrument repair for Cadenza (Yes, Cadenza actually runs a limited warranty for instruments). Hence, you find me talking a lot about instrument repair, maintainance, preparation and even some examples. Thus the motto of Cadenza : For Musicians, From Musicians... I would encourage that site to people as we believe that good instruments are meant to be shared, and the instruments in USA cost far far too much, and the quality is not as good. We wanna promote music, but more important I wanna have friends around the world. So you find me poking my nose everywhere, and talking to whoever, whenever about whatever..related or nearly that isi! I think that is the way our forum should stya, whether we have 29 ppl or 2999 ppl, right Charli? Oi! That's Charli e (with an 'e')! (and don't take that in the wrongest possible way... lol ;D ) I find the best way to get instruments is to have an effective means of communication. You get to know more about the instrument you're buying and is better than talking to a robot. And yes, I agree that instruments are to be shared and appreciated. They mustn't worry about 'sales' etc, but worry about customer satisfaction, since if the customer is not satisfied, there will be no sale! I want to become a guqin maker (dream job) but I want to become one not because I want a profit from it, but because I love the guqin and will probably be happy making one to play myself or even for others to play! Happy playing!
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Post by YouLanFengChune on Nov 28, 2004 12:49:53 GMT
YOz CHarlIE!!
Yupz! Thats the way it is!
Hey you good with making Guzqin? Poor you. You'll probably never make it rich with that till you die. Good Guqins season over 200 years! My teacher owns one from Qing Dynasty 1700s. Apparently he found the first crack 2 years ago. He was so happy. Crack guqin=seasoned guqin (thats what he said)
However, i think for prople like us, money ain't that important. Music is, sharing instrument ideas and more friends...
Right CharliE?
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Post by Charlie Huang on Nov 28, 2004 14:26:51 GMT
Well, a good qin doesn't have to be over hundreds of years old, as there are qins made out of new tong wood that even supasses antique qins (providing they are very well made that is). Plus as I said, I will not make qins to get rich. That's not my goal in life. But since I live in the UK, I probably can't become a qin maker coz of lack of materials (knowledge and info on qin making is already avaliable to me). So, that maybe my dream job, but that doesn't mean I will eventually get there. Failing that, I can always become an accomplished musician/writer/artist/manga ka, etc...
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Post by twilight on Nov 29, 2004 3:36:38 GMT
Charlie,
Have you ever thought of living in China? Maybe you can teach English or something as a side job while being an apprentice of making guqin. I myself would love to do that (live in China and pursuing my interest) but unfortunately I can't.
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Post by Charlie Huang on Nov 29, 2004 15:14:45 GMT
Unfortunately, I'm not that mobile, financialy secure or independant enough for me to move to China! Besides, my Chinese isn't that good (below average)! However, I could consider going to China/HK for a few weeks and become an apprentice, etc. I've got a translated copy of the Yuguzhai Qinpu which teaches how to make qins, but I suppose that I would need first hand experience to make the best. Anyways, it's too early for me to consider guqin maker job at the moment. Maybe in the future!
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Post by Charlie Huang on Dec 1, 2004 12:30:06 GMT
Oo-er! I just saw CCN selling a Qin Xiao that is supervised by Li Xiangting! Choices choices! Well, I suppose I would get that Qin Xiao from CCN and a professional G key xiao from Cadenzas then! There, everyones happy! ;D
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Post by davidmdahl on Dec 1, 2004 13:41:13 GMT
Oo-er! I just saw CCN selling a Qin Xiao that is supervised by Li Xiangting! Choices choices! Well, I suppose I would get that Qin Xiao from CCN and a professional G key xiao from Cadenzas then! There, everyones happy! ;D That would be a great way to get a comparison. Of course, keep in mind that the only one you need to keep happy is yourself. <g> Best wishes, David
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Post by YouLanFengChune on Dec 1, 2004 14:36:38 GMT
Don't be silly Charlie-san, Cadenza's not my business. I just repair and select for them, so i dun really feel happy when u buy, just that i feel the urge to introduce good stuff to my friends.
When u see Supervised, sadly, it means prices had gone up. Maker>>Supervisor>>Retailer>> Online Retailer>.You
Now, for Xiaos in Cadenza its Maker>>CADENZA>YOU
PLUS, the AS-IS clause in other companies, Cadenza tunes, and selects for u. Its done in a more specialized way, every cusytomer gets their due, not just because they paid, but because Cadenza wants to help everyone find good instrus.
I think you really should try the Qin Xiao from Cadenza first. Its the Qin Xiao EVERYONE in Taipei University doing Guqin studies own. I think its worth it for u.
After that, we can talk about you having the G diao professional dong xiao.
BTW, do you have the CD, an Infatuation of Dizi, by Zhang WeiLiang? He is the Chairman of Chinese Bamboo Flute Developement Society, and easily one of the most influential Dizi and Xiao player (especially Xiao) and he swears by the same Xiao David will be having.
Same batch, same age, same group of bamboo. Though he got the first selection, you can be suire that David is a happy man.
And please Make yourself happy FIRST!
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Post by davidmdahl on Dec 12, 2004 7:58:40 GMT
I have returned home from two weeks of traveling to find my new xiao from Cadenza waiting for me. It required some determination to open the shipping container, a pvc pipe capped at each end with pvc fittings. After some fruitless attempts with muscle alone, my workbench vise proved up to the challenge of removing a cap, and there it was, my new baby. It took a few minutes of blowing to get anything pleasant, but it now is quite easy to get a decent tone. I can tell that any problem with the sound is not the fault of the instrument. I found a fingering chart at www.goamcan.com/imports/How-to-play-xiao.htmlI don't have any study materials, so recommendations would be appreciated. I am limited to English, unfortunately, but notation and pictures can be helpful. Until I have something else, I will practice scales, and maybe "Autumn Moon over Tranquil Lake" or Ping Hu Qiu Yue (thanks to YouLanFengChune for the Chinese title). I have played Autumn Moon on my Irish flute and dizi, so it will be fun to play on the appropriate instrument. My new xiao looks very carefully made. The embouchure and tone holes are precisely cut. At the moment, my skill level and experience does not qualify me to judge the quality of this xiao, but in the little time I have spent with it, I have felt it come to life. I have enough experiences with other instruments to know that time spent with this one will be well-rewarded. Two thumbs up! Best wishes, David Dahl Portland, Oregon USA
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Post by YouLanFengChune on Dec 12, 2004 14:36:00 GMT
Yo!!
David! We can attempt to conduct mail lessons, if u wanna try. Send over some sound files or anything like that, and we can try to correct u.
I'm glad u liked your Xiao, but what u said really perturbed me. Do you mean most dizis you see are not precisely cut? ALL dizis MUST be individually cut, and not machine drilled. ITs ok to use electric hand drills, but good makers drill small holes and carve them to proper size, shape and angle using a knife.
I know there are some dizis which are mass produced using machinese. You can throw them away, as they aren't good for anything else. Outta pitch, outta tone..OUT!
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Post by davidmdahl on Dec 13, 2004 6:25:54 GMT
Yo!! David! We can attempt to conduct mail lessons, if u wanna try. Send over some sound files or anything like that, and we can try to correct u. ! That is an intriguing offer. I guess to start, I am going to need a book of exercises and tunes. Is there something you recommend I order from somewhere, or can you scan and email? All I have at the moment are a few tunes for dizi. I have transcribed a xiao performance of Ping Hu Qiu Yue , but might be better off starting with something less challenging. I'm glad u liked your Xiao, but what u said really perturbed me. Do you mean most dizis you see are not precisely cut? ALL dizis MUST be individually cut, and not machine drilled. ITs ok to use electric hand drills, but good makers drill small holes and carve them to proper size, shape and angle using a knife. I am sure that you know the answer to this one. <g> Most dizi's I have run across in the USA are pretty cheaply made, with little effort to making them play well or in tune. Often even the more expensive ones are only ornamented more fancily. It is actually a challenge to find a good instrument. I think that the assumption is made that a dizi is most likely to be purchased by a non-musician, or at least by someone who will not notice the difference between a good instrument and a tent peg. I have a wonderful dizi from Tim Liu (www.2measures.com), a dizi player from the east coast of the USA. All the good Asian instruments I have came from or via musicians who had the right connections. I have never found a good Asian instrument in a music store. That does not mean it could not happen, but the odds are better going through good musician. I should add that based on recent experience, buying from Cadenza is a safe bet. Best wishes, David Dahl Portland, Oregon
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Post by YouLanFengChune on Dec 13, 2004 14:52:23 GMT
I had a look at the page, and I realised something.
Tim Liu's dizi (no offence) are at least 2 grades below what we usually see as professional instruments. Firstly the "so-called" concert grade dizis were painted and multiple bound. These were classical of Shuzhou dizi by Zhou Xusheng, who was famous in 1980s, but has become phased out.
It could be well pitched, but the tone would definitely not be what we require of a Professional player.
Pieces like Birds amid tree shadows.... they might be "impressive", but hey, these are standard pieces, everyone should learn. Instaed of helping more students, they charge exorbitant rates for the VCD. I would say its ok to sll the Cd for $10 or $20, but look at the prices.
Today, i also reviewed sites like CCN, and to our horror, the dizis there look like..... well, i think I will sell it to you at $50-$60 each. and i mean Singapore dollars. Dizi membrane costs as much as .... nevermind.
I would say tim Liu offers betta value than CCN, but both are not good in terms of quality.
TRust me on this. i'm only 22, but i have at least spent $10K on dizi, enough to try, experience and tes.
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Post by davidmdahl on Dec 13, 2004 16:41:06 GMT
I do not have a lot of experience with high-end dizi's, since most that I have run across in the USA were pretty awful. Among those that I have played, the one that I have from Tim Liu is by far the best. When I have a chance, I will take some pictures and send or post them somewhere. For now, the xiao from Cadenza and dizi from Tim will have to suffice. My next instrument will probably be a dan nguyet (moon lute) or erhu.
I really need to find a way to send a clone to work while I stay home and practice all these instruments!
Best wishes,
David Dahl Portland, Oregon
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Post by YouLanFengChune on Dec 13, 2004 23:28:38 GMT
Dizi lesson Number 1: Long Notes
From the lowest note, hold at least 8 counts (one count per sec), ensuring your breathe is staedy, no wavering in the note. Do this for every note all the way up to the highest.
Do this twice a day, before starting any practising. If you can practise twice a day, 30 mins each, you will see very marked improvement.
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Post by Dick on Jan 8, 2005 1:09:54 GMT
Here are some words of introduction about myself. I've been playing music of one kind and another for over 40 years. Whew. By this point in my life I've worked with more teachers than I care to even try to count. Happy to say, I've enjoyed the privilege of sharing bandstands and orchestra stages with some of my most admired heroes. Not to mention many many of my dearest lifelong friends. I love music!
After early training in western classical and band music I got exposed to US folk and rock forms and then got serious about jazz and improvised music. I became interested in bamboo and wood flutes when I saw Raphael Garrett play a Turkish ney. It blew my mind, and set me on a journey of discovery that has continued for more than twenty years.
Today I live and work in Seattle, Washington, USA. I work with as many different musicians, and in as many diverse styles, as I can make time for. I play several instruments in the woodwind, string, and percussion families. We travel a bit, and I try to bring home a locally made instrument from everywhere we go. Or two or three.
The Chinese members of my instrument collection include gu qin, san xian, sheng, suona, and guan. But my very favorites, far and away, are the beautiful xiaos and dizis I brought home from Master M.Z. Ying's workshop in Hangzhou.
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