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Post by blueharp on Nov 29, 2004 7:12:27 GMT
Hi all, I received a set of silk guqin strings yesterday. The maker, a very kind and generous man, admonished me to read the instructions before putting them on my guqin. The instructions are in Chinese and I can't read them. Usually if I get a soft copy I can plow through it with the help of electronic translators. I can recognize a few characters but my Chinese reading level is probably that of a pre-schooler. I haven't put on silk strings before and they are very hard to come by, so I don't want to make mistakes. Might there be anyone willing to help translate? Most appreciatively, Steve
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Post by YouLanFengChune on Nov 29, 2004 14:48:31 GMT
Send me a copy?
I'll try my best for you! (Singapore kids are bilingual)
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Post by Charlie Huang on Nov 29, 2004 15:07:09 GMT
Firstly, where does your silk strings come from? I've heard that there is a recent development in Hong Kong which makes very good quality silk strings (very white, smooth and strong). Mines come from Suzhou and they are wrapped in red thread, which is a standard quality (i.e. average). There was no instructions that came with it. I strung them on a few times. It's the same as stringing metal nylon strings. You don't need to worry about them breaking, since they are stronger than you think (if they do break, then they are poorly made). If you don't pull hard enough, then there will be buzzing sounds (silk strings vibrate more than mn strings). Also, avoid using the new tuning device, you need to string it on traditionally. Silk strings comes longer than mn strings. You should wrap the first three on the outer foot and the last four on the inner foot.
When playing silk strings, it is difficult to play at first, because the first three strings are very round and thick, making your fingers easily slip off them, but practice makes perfect in that case.
Silk string sets usually come with an extra third and seventh string, so maybe you should string them as an experiement to get the feel of their strenght and the tension required to avoid buzzing.
But, I suppose its best to read the instructions first, just in case. You can e-mail me a copy, or post a scan of it here.
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Post by blueharp on Nov 29, 2004 18:44:07 GMT
Hello Charlie and Yinhao,
The strings are the Taigu strings from Hong Kong. They arrived vacuum packed in a plastic pouch with a small container of what looks like ointment.
The packaging is most elegant - I am saving it as it is so lovely.
I have emailed a copy of the instructions in jpeg format. Apologies for the large file size, I wanted to make sure that the image is readable.
Thank you both for your kind offer of help.
Steve
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Post by Charlie Huang on Nov 29, 2004 22:27:56 GMT
OMG! That's the Taiko (taigu) silk strings! ;D They're the best silk strings avaliable on the market! Lucky you! Yes, the first page talks about the history and development of silk strings and how the Taiko silk strings was developed, by the Wu clan of Yushan. Written by Wu Wenguang! The second page talks about the properties of Taiko silk strings, and tells you about tuning and notes when stringing. Yes, I was right. It says you need to pull them as tight as they could go (of course, best to exercise cation and not over do it) when stringing them. Have yet to read the bit about maintanence and afterword (a bit late here in the UK *yawn*). I'll read it in the morning (GMT) and tell you then! But, I WANT A SET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;D
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Post by blueharp on Dec 1, 2004 7:09:42 GMT
Charlie,
A BIG XieXie!
What concerns me is that there is a small box of what looks like rosin ( I thought it was ointment until I actually opened it) that came with the strings.
What the heck is it for??
How do I use it? Where do I use it? When do I use it?
Enquiring minds want to know! ;D
Steve
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Post by Charlie Huang on Dec 1, 2004 12:03:30 GMT
Dunno about that box of rosin... Strangley, I wonder why that would be needed for silk strings, since traditionally, there is no such need. But maybe it is for the maintenance of the strings, since good quality needs to be protected. I'll read that bit tonight and see if it's true.
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Post by blueharp on Dec 1, 2004 18:53:51 GMT
It seems to be referenced in the care section.
I tried to post the characters on the little box but they don't seem to work. They are supposed to be in unicode-8.
Just in case here they are again.
‘¾ŒÃ Œ¼ ŒŽ ? can't make out the second part of the character)
With great thanks,
Steve
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Post by Charlie Huang on Dec 3, 2004 10:14:41 GMT
OK, here's a brief summary:
Qin strings can be kept in their air tight packaging for over ten years. Avoid direct sunlight (melts glue bonding silk strands). Before playing, always wash and dry hands thoroughly (dirt, oil and dampness shorterns string life). After playing, slacken strings six and seven (to avoid breaking due to long periods of tension). Use the 'silk string rosin' on strings when there is signs of wear or fraying of silk strands (apply in one direction several times until the strands are realigned). If the whole string is worn, go over it all with the rosin twice or thrice over). This would make the string good as new.
The afterword talks about the decline of silk string manufacture and reasons of why it did and why silk strings should still be made and relevant to modern qin society, etc.
Another note by myself: Silk strings tend to break at where they touch the yueshan. When one does, simply cut a bit off at the broken end to tidy it up. Tie a new butterfly knot, then restring it using the extra length at the wrapping end. The bottom strings could be reused in such a way for up to ten times, upper strings around 3 to 4 times depending on how much you cut off, how big the bow and how you wrap them on the goose feet. On average, a set of good quality silk strings should last decades, if not years. Plus, silk strings should improve on sound quality the more you play them, and the more time elapses.
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Post by blueharp on Dec 3, 2004 19:32:26 GMT
A Huge THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;D ;D ;D I am deeply grateful for the assistance! This is why this forum is so fantastic! Observations: Putting these strings on using the traditional method is much easier - it was not necessary to use as much force. These strings are very strong and right now I have them tuned quite high for silk; C D F G A C D. Tonally they are very similar to the 'professional' strings I bought from CCN, without the metallic 'edge', but 'richer' with more overtones audible. They sustain almost as long too! The wrapping on strings 1 to 4 is very fine and unlike other silk strings I have seen. It looks like the string is 'overspun' with fine silk over a twisted core making it quite smooth. Many techniques speak more easily with silk strings. The Fan Yin are so much easier to execute and clearer. Qia Qi, Zhua Qi, Yan, and various vibratos are easier and more distinct. My guqin is not suitable for silk strings Although they work the instrument is built to accomodate MN. A friend has a very nice guqin she bought in Beijing 20 years or so back when she was a student at the University (for $100USD!!). A set of silk and a set of MN strings were provided with it, With MN strings it is ordinary, but when we changed to silk... magic! It was actually louder with silk strings. Apparently at that time guqins were built specifically for silk strings. Alas mine isn't like that! I guess I am a silky at heart. Now to get a better guqin! With deepest respect, Steve
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Post by Charlie Huang on Dec 14, 2004 11:46:14 GMT
I saw a pack of the famous Taiko silk strings on Sunday at the yaji! Yes, very good, but in their pack. I wished to have played on them, but Dan Nung wasn't there. Anyways, they said it cost around £100 ($175)!!!
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Post by blueharp on Dec 16, 2004 9:02:56 GMT
I have a question for you Charlie. May I ask where you got your Suzhou silk strings? Are they the Huqiu Brand?
A friend has expressed interest in trying silk strings and I am quite reluctant to loan out my Taigu set. £100 is more than I am willing to risk for a friend!
Many thanks,
Steve
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Post by Charlie Huang on Dec 16, 2004 14:03:32 GMT
Well, I got them from here: www.clarionmusic.comIt cost $35, though that place is for tourists rather than actual musicians. Even so, they are the only place that sells silk strings on the net (I think). The package says its from Suzhou, the brand is indeed Huqiu, and has the seal of "Jinyu Qinxian". They are OK, but they get worn out easily. They were wrapped in red silk when I opened the box, which according to John Thompson, is the average grade. I bought them out of curiosity, but I knew that there were better quality out there. I want another qin, so I can have one with mn strings and one with silk strings. Don't loan your Taiko strings! Stick them onto (a silk string) qin and let him play on that instead.
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Post by blueharp on Dec 18, 2004 4:37:38 GMT
Domo-oregato Charlie-san! ;D
Clarion is actually very close to me. I asked for silk strings the last time I was there and was told that they didn't have any!
The Taigu strings are special, and I think I will save them for when I actually get a guqin designed specifically for silk strings.
In the meantime the professional strings sold by CCN are actually tonally close to Taigu so I will use them or the Huqiu strings and I will recommend that my friend get the Huqiu too.
Steve
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Post by blueharp on Mar 7, 2005 6:57:21 GMT
Well I finally got a set of Hu-qiu strings and quite truthfully I like them better than the Taigu on the instruments I have.
Apparently there is an extra 6 string as well as an extra 7 string.
The biggest issue that I have with my instruments utilizing silk strings is that 1 buzzes because the string has larger vibrations. I haven't tried putting a "shim" under the string at the bridge yet - maybe that will help.
The "joy" of silk strings is that they stretch a bit at first. If ever someone wanted to practice putting on strings using the traditional way just get a set of silk strings!
Steve
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Post by Charlie Huang on Mar 7, 2005 10:36:21 GMT
The Huqiu strings come with an extra 7th and 3rd string.
TBH, Taiko would be better used on a good quality qin made for silk strings. Huqiu would serve as standard for non-silk string instruments.
To remove the buzzing sounds, you must add more tension when you string. They are incredibly stronger than you think. Of course, don't over do it. It takes practice, but you can get a good tuning without buzzing.
You can add a shim on the bridge to make it higher, but I think toothpicks look nasty... Anyways, you might try to find a goose feather from China, where the plasticy bit is cut into a rectangle and fitted onto the longyin, which raises the strings on the bottom end a bit (which is where most of the buzzing takes place).
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Post by YouLanFengChune on Mar 7, 2005 14:55:34 GMT
Hi Charlie... I need to ask of something.
What makes a good Guqin? Features? What strings, accessories are nedeed? Any really very good brands?
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Post by YouLanFengChune on Mar 11, 2005 16:09:45 GMT
I think Cadenza will ahve a guqin site soon. Our TaiKO Strings (highest quality) costs about $88 USD (free shipping)
Is that a good price?
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Post by Charlie Huang on Mar 12, 2005 18:32:34 GMT
Let's see, current exchange rate comes at around £45-50. That's actually a really good price! ;D You must be sure to consult some good qin players/masters for advice on good qins (see acquiring a good qin thread, etc).
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Post by Charlie Huang on Aug 18, 2005 10:11:41 GMT
OK, I got a set of Taiko from Candenza! After examining the text, some revisions to my original translation:
Firstly, there are three 'types' or 'gauges' of Taiko silk strings. First is 'taigu' [great antiqity], which is the standard set. It is suitable for standard / all qins (with a length of 105 - 112 cm). Second is the 'zhongqing' [middle clarity] which is specially thinner than the taigu set, which is suitable for longer qins (over 115 cm long), which upper board is thicker AND made out of Shan wood (most modern qins made out of old wood). Third is 'jiazhong' [increased heaviness] which is thicker than the taigu set, which is suitable for shorter qins (less than 105 cm long), which top board is either thin OR made of Tong wood (most antique qins).
On the front of the packaging, they list these types with their properties, plus they have a small diamond at the top of each one. The string type that you get will have a mark in one of the diamonds indicating which string type you get in the set. Apparently, I got the zhongqing type, which is suitable for my qin as it is made of shan wood.
I wanna ask Yinhao to check the taiko string sets Candenza sells and make it clear which types they have, since the website states that it has a 'taiko' set and a 'thicker taiko' set, it needs to diffrentiate from the two others (i.e. taigu and zhongqing) since they are different in terms of thickness.
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Post by blueharp on Aug 19, 2005 5:50:05 GMT
I checked my correspondance with Mr. Wong who makes the Taiko strings. He mentions the 3 types but refers me to the instructions about their suitability. The translation is appreciated!
Mr. Wong also recommends the Maintenance (•Û—{) section as very useful to the silk string player.
I have the Taigu or standard thickness. I just replaced the Hu-qiu strings with the Taigu - what a difference! The buzzes are almost non-existant! The tone is very pure with a nice balance between strings. In addition the fan-yin are luscious.
The best sound for my qin is with the strings tuned slightly sharper (a quarter tone) than the typical tuning. At the standard of a=440Hz they are ok, but with just that tiny bit more tension the qin sings.
Strings 3 and 4 were sounding a bit dull and "hissed" when pucked. The strings were coated using the Taigu Glue (‘¾ŒÃŒ¼äP) and after drying for about 20 minutes - bright and beautiful sound.
How can you tell which wood is used? My "old wood" qin wood appears quite different from that which is used in my newer qin. My friend has a qin that is fabulous that she says is made of tong wood, and it is different from either of mine.
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Post by Charlie Huang on Aug 19, 2005 12:21:04 GMT
I suppose you look at the colour of the wood, the grains, etc. During the summer school, Brian brought a catalogue from the Longfeng factory and it had a qin listed in their that looked exactly like mines in every aspect! It was listed as made out of Shan wood, so I assumed that it is. The tong wood qins I've seen are all made out of new wood. I would assume that modern qins that utilise old wood would not be tong, since the wood is gained from old buildings or from tomb structural wood, which are not tong but usually made of shan, so I guess that all (or most) qins made out of old wood be shan. But for antique qins, I'd assume that the maker at the time used new tong wood when he made it, so they are generally tong.
I'm going to keep my Taiko strings in their packet until I obtain a better qin. Then, I either string them onto my present one (though it will be interesting to see if they will buzz after Zeng Chengwei and my planing down of the yue shan) or the new one (which will depend on whether I want to use it for better performance with silk or metal strings). Currently, I'm skint so it will be several years before I obtain a better qin (unless someone wanted to swap, but hardly). My friend who is just a beginner got a 'music shop' qin that wasn't good coz the yue shan was excessively low (buzzing sounds galore), but now she has commissioned a qin from a maker via a friend and it will be interesting whether she will get a better qin than mines (I will be evnious if so). So far, I've grown out of my present qin and want a better one. It's sound has improved through the two and a half years of use, but I really want a better one. *sigh*
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Post by blueharp on Aug 21, 2005 5:47:51 GMT
I understand now about the wood, it's just so difficult to tell them apart sometimes. The Taiko strings really are different from the Hu-qiu. At first I didn't want to open them either then curiosity got the better of me. Mine are settling in nicely and I am really not interested in going back to MN just yet. I can empathize about getting a better qin. If this were a few years ago, I wouldn't hesitate. Sadly I am feeling the financial pinch. The other tough thing is that the 'real' qin stores are in China or Singpore. OK I am spoiled because Wang Fei is here in the SF Area, but she doesn't maintain a "store" - so I would feel funny making an appointment just to browse and play my 3 or 4 beginner pieces. It's at the yajis that I get the opportunity to try out good instruments. Hopefully there is a new job on the horizon. I found a very reasonable RT airfare to Beijing or Shanghai ($588US) and Mr. Wang Peng has his showroom in Beijing. I have also heard of a store dedicated to qin in Shanghai, and Dr. Tong Kin-woon evidently has over 300 qins (including some old ones ie. Song dynasty) available in Hong Kong. If things get better I would love to take a week or two and visit them! And of course buy at least one qin, a guzheng or two, a nice xiao, a xun... well you get the idea! ;D
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Post by YouLanFengChune on Aug 21, 2005 15:00:32 GMT
Hmm...
Mr Kee Chee Koon, our correspondent owns a Guqin boutique in Singapore.
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Post by blueharp on Aug 22, 2005 4:22:27 GMT
Yet another reason to visit Singapore! ;D
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