Lisa
Intermediate
Erhu
Posts: 33
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Post by Lisa on Jun 18, 2007 22:39:37 GMT
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Post by davidmdahl on Jun 19, 2007 0:04:59 GMT
That's a pretty good description of traditional Vietnamese technique. Contemporary erhu technique borrows a lot more from violin, such as use of the finger tips, and not pressing so hard on the strings. Finger vibrato is common among the Vietnamese and old-timer Chinese, while the conservatory approach uses the finger rolling technique as on a violin.
The style of music dictates the style of playing. You will use different techniques for playing Vietnamese music than for Beijing opera or a common erhu tune like Liang Xiao.
Best wishes,
David
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Lisa
Intermediate
Erhu
Posts: 33
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Post by Lisa on Jun 19, 2007 22:42:24 GMT
David, I may be wrong, (apologies if I am) but you have Vietnamese instruments listed under your picture ? Do you have a link to some Vietnamese music? I would like to listen to the difference.
Thanks,
Lisa
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Post by davidmdahl on Jun 20, 2007 4:23:30 GMT
Yes, Lisa, my main musical interest these days is in traditional Vietnamese music. I have been taking erhu lessons for two years in order to play the Vietnamese version, the dan nhi (or dan co), since there are no dan nhi players around my area. I am studying several VN instruments, but my primary instruments are the dan bau and dan tranh. There are a few excellent videos on youtube.com: dan tranh youtube.com/watch?v=oNhgCUk0LEAyoutube.com/watch?v=X-y8NV3KA9wyoutube.com/watch?v=5TN_059Qm5sdan bau youtube.com/watch?v=nregrpVxo2Ayoutube.com/watch?v=xGHLTQzib3YPop/Trad. ensemble youtube.com/watch?v=bmsPFEjukO0The real stuff: vinhbao.theonly1.net/CD_NVB_Ensemble.htmThis is audio only, but the music is genuine traditional music by a 90 year old master. Check out the other music on the site as well, much of it recorded in his home. Well, there is more, but that is a taste of Vietnamese music. It is nothing like Chinese music, to my ears, but very lovely. Best wishes, David |
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Post by davidmdahl on Jun 20, 2007 5:16:49 GMT
Now that you have me on the subject, here are a few other links to some fascinating vocal Vietnamese music. Hat Van - trance singing www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrtagrBD5dYHat Xam - voice & dan nhi www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHIeinyw7hACa Tru www.youtube.com/watch?v=deDZmPLf8ngI hope you can watch all to the end. In particular the Ca Tru is strange to Western ears, but it has a strange power that grows on you. It dates at least to the 15th century, so Ca Tru is truly a voice from the past. I am struggling to learn the tune Xam Hue Tinh on the dan day, the long-necked lute you see in the video. Study of the vocal music is the path for understanding the instrumental music. Best wishes, David |
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Lisa
Intermediate
Erhu
Posts: 33
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Post by Lisa on Jun 20, 2007 9:45:06 GMT
Oh My! My ears have been educated, delighted and seduced. I am very grateful for those links.
Ca Tru: Seductive and very textured. It's as if one thinks they know how deep their personal well of feelings goes, until something like this drops the bottom out of it.
Hat Van: Charming but perhaps with underlying danger. Sexy and aloof in a way.
Hat Xam: It had the feel like speaking naturally to a lover.
dan tranh: Smooth like the best imagined fragrant waterfall. Intoxicating.
I can't wait to listen to the rest of the links. My ears have had a feast to say the least. Now, I really must have some cds. What a breath of fresh this has been. Thank you so much for sharing!
Lisa
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Post by calden on Jun 20, 2007 13:38:52 GMT
David:
Thanks for the references. Great music!
When I arranged the Asian Music Concert here a few months ago (see my post and the link to the Chinese music video clip) I tried very hard to get someone to sing/play some Korean, Hmong, or Vietnamese tunes, but although these people are in our community they were reluctant to participate. I've heard we have some great Vietnamese musicians in our city, though, and I will actively try and seek out some performances.
Carlos
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Post by Charlie Huang on Jun 20, 2007 18:46:01 GMT
Woooo! Great stuff!
Particularly like the 'real stuff'. Certainly not CJK music. It's rather distinct in my opinion.
And the Can Tru singing... wow!
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Post by davidmdahl on Jun 20, 2007 20:19:05 GMT
Thank you all, for the comments. It means a lot to me that others are touched by Vietnamese music. Some of the forms like Hat Xam (music by blind musicians) are truly endangered. Ca Tru has had a rebirth in recent years in the north, and some young students are learning from some very old teachers.
There is a Vietnamese film (subtitled in English) titled "Me Thao Thoi Vang Bong" or "Once upon a time in Me Thao hamlet", that has some powerful Ca Tru performances. The story itself is very sad and depressing, but the Ca Tru makes it worthwhile. At one time a Ca Tru clip from the end was on youtube.com, but it has been removed. The DVD is available from Vietnamese media outlets like saigoncd.com (actually in California) and maybe via inter library loan.
There are a few Ca Tru CDs available via Amazon. I will post links if I find anything good online.
Best wishes,
David
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Post by blueharp on Jun 21, 2007 6:47:58 GMT
My jaw dropped when the Ca Tru video began playing. Exquisite is an understatement. Such pathos in the singer's voice - it is haunting. I wish I understood the words. The video itself tells a story and is very well done.
The Hat Van video is reminiscent of some of the performances of Indian music I have attended. For lack of better words it seems to share some of the same "ecstatic" quality.
I am not sure what to make of the Hat Xam example. It is restrained yet passionate. I tried translating the title to get some insight couldn't make out the diacritical marks in the video.
Each of the video links you suggested are small works of art.
I am very grateful you have shared them with us.
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Post by song on Jun 21, 2007 13:24:51 GMT
The ca tru video was eerily enchanting for me....
Sung Wah
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Post by davidmdahl on Jun 21, 2007 16:11:18 GMT
There are some more Ca Tru videos at www.daothuvan.com/Click on the image and then click on 'Ha Noi" in the lower right corner. Choose from the list on the left and click the play icon. There is more music on the site worth exploring. I hope you find something to enjoy. Best wishes, David |
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Post by davidmdahl on Jun 21, 2007 16:35:53 GMT
I am not sure what to make of the Hat Xam example. It is restrained yet passionate. I tried translating the title to get some insight couldn't make out the diacritical marks in the video. The title of the Hat Xam is "Muc Ha Vo Nhan". The English title is sometimes "The Beggar's Song" but is more literally translated as "Everyone is Nothing in My Eyes". There is an interesting article on Hat Xam music at the following link: vietnamnews.vnagency.com.vn/showarticle.php?num=05SUN210506There are references in the article to the last living "authentic" Xam artist, 86 year old Ha Thi Cau. I have a CD and VCD of Thi Cau, and the music is raw like early Blues from the Delta. It is not beautiful singing, but it cuts to the bone. Best wishes, David |
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Post by Charlie Huang on Jun 22, 2007 11:34:17 GMT
I can't seem to stop watching that Can Tru video...
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Post by blueharp on Jun 22, 2007 11:34:32 GMT
I just watched the Ru Con Video (http://youtube.com/watch?v=xGHLTQzib3Y) about 30 times. It is so haunting.
I tried to find the lyrics, and the ones I located seem to match the video. To paraphrase: As a mother sings her child to sleep she is saddened by the realization that he will grow up and leave.
David you have me hooked!
I want to learn this song on my recently acquired dan tranh!
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Post by Charlie Huang on Jun 22, 2007 12:26:38 GMT
I'm moving this to the Others forum.
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Post by holdencaufield on Apr 18, 2011 16:16:59 GMT
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Post by davidmdahl on Apr 18, 2011 23:14:03 GMT
Lovely! That is a Quan Ho folksong from the Bac Ninh province of Northern Vietnam. There are a lot of Quan Ho songs on Youtube. I particularly like the singer Thuy Huong. Most of the clips on Youtube are not of very good audio quality, but I really enjoy the singing of Thu Huyen. This clip is the Cheo style rather than Quan Ho, but I love it: www.youtube.com/watch?v=r0cpZIpCDxYBest wishes, David |
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Post by holdencaufield on Apr 18, 2011 23:55:44 GMT
Do you know where to get the sheet music for Quan Ho songs like this? Or any traditional songs really. Like "Da Co Hoai Lang" for example...I have plenty access to Tien Chien music but that is not "traditional traditional"  I'm learning erhu but my passion is really traditional Vietnamese music. Unfortunately my dan nhi was of very poor quality so I had to learn Chinese erhu instead. I am looking forward to purchasing a dan bau in the future, but will have no access to a teacher - is it possible to learn on one's own? Its interesting that the most popular use of traditional instruments in Vietnamese music seems to be in union with western instruments/synthesizer in "nhac sen" (a somewhat deragatory term that has similar meaning to "redneck music") aka the music often sung by Truong Vu, Manh Quynh, Phi Nhung, etc... |
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Post by davidmdahl on Apr 19, 2011 4:52:20 GMT
There is very little Vietnamese music published in way that is easily accessible. There is some available at the Tieng Hat Que Huong Ensemble's website: www.tienghatquehuong.com/SheetMusic/dancaindex.htmwww.tienghatquehuong.com/SheetMusic/studyguides.htmThere is also a booklet by composer Pham Duy of folk songs he arranged. It appears to be pretty rare, but you could get lucky. Most of the music I work from has been hand-copied by my teacher. Learning dan bau is challenging even with a teacher. If you have to do it on your own, there are some resources. Pham Duc Thanh, who you see on Paris by Night videos, offers a video course. You might travel to spend a few days with a teacher to get you started. If you get serious about that, I can give you some suggestions on who to contact. I think highly of such singers as Manh Quynh and Phi Nhung. I think that the term for the music they sometimes sing is "country music", but I have not heard it meant derogatively. I love it when they sing Tan Co songs, with the Cai Luong section in the middle. If you want the real stuff, look for Tai Tu Nam Bo such as by the wonderful Nguyen Vinh Bao. Best wishes, David |
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Post by holdencaufield on Apr 19, 2011 5:04:07 GMT
I've taken a look at Pham Duc Thanh's video course - unfortunately, it is outrageously expensive. Where did you buy your dan bau? I was thinking about trying to get a family member to buy me one (out in Ha Noi) and for someone to bring over to the states...
Normally on the DVD/CD programs, you won't see the music genre of Manh Quynh, et al labelled as "nhac sen" since that term is much more vernacular. Much like "hillbilly" v. "country".
I enjoy the Tan Co pieces as well. Although they can be corny at times (I guess that puts you at an advantage, not understanding Vietnamese!!)...
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Post by davidmdahl on Apr 19, 2011 22:05:04 GMT
Unless you can find a local teacher, it is hard to find economical and effective ways of learning to play traditional music on the dan bau. If the Vietnamese language is not a challenge for you, there may be more options available to you than I have found.
Most of the traditional instruments most easily found in Vietnam are "tourist quality" and more fit for decoration than a musician. You can get a good instrument if you go through a musician, or find out where the musicians get instruments. I have more connections in Saigon than Hanoi, so I am not sure where to send you there.
I think that recently Carol Chang of Sound of Asia was selling dan baus on Ebay. The dan tranhs she sells are excellent, so her dan baus are probably good too. I don't see any listed just now, but you might email her if you want to explore that channel. Pham Duc Thanh sells an excellent dan bau, but if you think the course is expensive... <g>
Best wishes,
David
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gawn
Intermediate
Posts: 43
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Post by gawn on Apr 21, 2011 11:21:34 GMT
I really love the Dan Bau music samples you have posted here, and I have watched many more videos on youtube. Great stuff!!!
However, all of them use amplified 'E-Dan Baus' and I wonder what the instrument might originally have sounded like - pick-ups like they use on the Dan Bau, Guitars and other instruments are a fairly recent invention (20th century) that changed the sound of the instrument significantly (comparing an E-Guitar with an Acoustic one for example).
Are there any recordings on a traditional (or at least unplugged) Dan Bau?
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Post by davidmdahl on Apr 21, 2011 18:15:58 GMT
There is acoustic dan bau here. The music starts a minute into the video. There might be a better recording of the singers, but you can hear the dan bau well enough, in spite of the live performance. www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tvzJ5VCwGY These performers recorded a great CD "Xam Ha Noi". There is more acoustic dan bau on the CD in the accompanying ensemble. I love Hat Xam style, and this is the best recording of it. Many of the tunes are on Youtube. Good acoustic dan bau - sublime singing www.youtube.com/watch?v=dju-iCRCaLE Check out the videos downloaded by this user. Some are wonderful: www.youtube.com/user/MsLyBichNgoc#p/u/4/nSlq-Z9x2cMRecordings and live performances with acoustic dan bau are fairly rare. I might stick a transducer pickup in my acoustic dan bau to see if the results are good. Best wishes, David |
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Post by holdencaufield on Apr 21, 2011 21:04:02 GMT
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