Electronic Erhu

[jetz320]

I read about David's post in "Erhu Posture" about electronic erhus. I think I may have seen one before. There is also a band called 18, and in one of their songs, one of the erhu player's erhu turned into the sound of a jinghu!!!!!!! How is that possible!!!!

[calden]

There are lots of guitar pickups and synth systems that can read a note and turn it into a synthesizer (midi) signal. It might be tougher with an erhu, due to the pitch fluctuation (on an erhu that's an understatement!) but it could be done through other means. With today's technology it would be very easy to take a pitch signal and alter the harmonics to make it sound like whatever you want.

How about an erhu that sounds like a saxophone? Celtic harp? Heavy metal guitar? It's possible, though maybe not desirable.

Carlos

[maaltan]

Electric Erhu. Ive seen one on a chinese website long ago. it was wild looking. It had everything except the resonator box and in its place it had what looked like a tapered hammer head that held the electronics.

I also experimented with trying some non-destructive modifications to my cheap ebay erhu. i was able to get pretty good results using the piezo drum out of my computers microphone. My mic sensor/pickup is about the same size as the bridge so i just placed it under the strings instead of the bridge. If i ever make a leap in skills worth recording for critique i will probably use this method to record it.

My new job is keeping me busy and I am forcing myself to play for at least 15 min a day just to maintain the skills i have learned so far. I hope once i get time to finish at least one song by the end of the year. I almost have liang xiao finished. the fast part is still whipping me though.

the interesting things about most instruments is the wonderful harmonics (sorry it still facinates me) that exists behind the fudamental generated. the amp might have been a simple as a low pass filter (the most basic is simply a large capacitor) nullifying the low frequencies from the instruments and reamplifying the remainder effectivly raising the instrument one or two octaves. Like calden said, with modern digital signal processing (DSP), magic can be performed. It would even be possible to take my crappy, scratchy playing and replace it with a masters playing in real time.

Who knows how many modern artists are bow/lip/plecturm syncing.

Well enough of this impromptu lesson of "musical theory as it relates to electronic theory as known by me"

[dsouthwood]

Here are links to web pages in Japanese describing the Seiko electronic:

www.ybcn.jp/seiko.htm

www.ybcn.jp/seikodetail.htm

Can anyone help me with information about this instrument? How much does it cost? How much for shipping? How can I order one? I am very interested in this, but I am at a complete loss for how to proceed.

Any assistance will be most appreciated.

[Charlie Huang]

It costs around $340 (£180). Shipping (in Japan) is $12 (£6) so I expect it to be at least $50-60 shipping to US.

[pqleyr]

calden said:

How about an erhu that sounds like a saxophone? Celtic harp? Heavy metal guitar? It's possible, though maybe not desirable.

People who want to do that should take up something more conventional and less interesting!

Ah, also, regarding the Erhu/Jinghu transformation, since the Erhu only ever produces single notes or harmonics, it would be possible to pitch-shift it in real time using a Digitech Whammy pedal or similar.

[jetz320]

I think that this is really weird! I mean, people are messing with 2000 years of tradition adding electronics to it? It's messing with the art and beauty of it. This is like turning a cat into a dog! >_<

[calden]

Well, yes and no. It's good and bad.

The violin would not be the worldwide acclaimed instrument if it had stayed in a static state. Beethoven pushed innovations on the piano, adding octaves and ranges and forcing makers to accomodate his needs with new construction tehniques. The American banjo wouldn't be what it is today were it not for the tinkerers and non-traditionalists who dared to modify the tone ring or change the scale length. The guitar would be a simple, small, quiet instrument if it weren't for the makers who heard something different. The erhu would be much quieter, having stuck with the original silk strings and probably goat-skin head. All these changes fought years of traditionalists who, I'm sure, turned up their nose at someone who dared to change what they saw as a tradition.

Now let me be clear - I love the sound of the erhu. A good erhu played expertly moves me to tears more than any western violin. But let's not rule out experimentation and attempts at change. Most of it will get tossed out, but a little tiny bit will get into the tradition and make it better. I surely don't believe that any electronic modification will make an acoustic instrument sound better, and I'm not advocating that it might sound better, but cats into dogs?

Carlos
no fan of 12 Girls Band rave/trance/disco, but like that they are experimenting

[davidmdahl]

I agree with Carlos. I do have a preference for "traditional" music on acoustic instruments, and enjoy the idea that the music as been passed down through the ages. The reality is that sometimes the music and instruments as we know them are less ancient than we might think. Some of the new stuff is pretty good. Instead of getting too caught up in a philosophical argument it is worth evaluating new developments on their merits.

Best wishes,

David

[maaltan]

hmm. interesting .. i get tons more hits on electric qin than electric erhu. I read that they exist and are constructed using the same tech as electric guitars using steel strings and magnetic pickups. no real good pictures or recordings found yet though.

[dsouthwood]

My interest in the electronic erhu is primarily because only I would be able to hear it when I practice on it. Drummers have practice drum pads; keyboard players can use headphones so that only they can hear. When I practice during lunch time at school, I have the classroom to myself and can play loudly. At home in my apartment, I am conscious that my neighbors can hear what I am doing, and that turns every practice session into a recital, with the result that I am much more hesitant in what I do. I can't rule out that some day I might find a reason to perform using the electronic erhu as a novelty, but I love the sound of the traditional instrument too much to play anything else. But for practice? I really want one of those high-tech instruments.

Thanks to CCC for the price info. Has anyone found an English-language site selling the Seiko? I don't have a clue how to order one from the Japanese-language sites.

[Charlie Huang]

Stephen Dydo has made an electric qin. In fact, he's coming over to the UK from New York for a yaji on the 12th, bringing it along!

As others have said, there is a need for experimentation. If it is unsucessful, it would die out anyway, so no point in fretting about it.

[damien]

Well after a few pages on google i can't find any resources on the electric qin at all.

Will Mr. Dydo be performing and where will it be? Probably London right?

I can't say anymore than Carlos on this subject of ecoustic or electric, He hit the nail on the head.

[calden]

admin said:

As others have said, there is a need for experimentation. If it is unsucessful, it would die out anyway, so no point in fretting about it.

Yah, especially if it's a qin or an erhu.

Carlos

[Charlie Huang]

Yaji in London of course. It's rarely 'opp north'!

Dydo's website: www.dydomusic.com/

Also, went to town today and saw an erhu for sale! Rare indeed! However, I noticed that the strings where broken (looked like wire more than string to me), no bridge, just a wad of those packaging polestyerene (sp!) stuck under it! £85. Maybe worth it if it was re-strung with a proper bridge, but I dopn't rate it highly on first looks.

[damien]

Little bit more than £85 and i think you could get a very nice Erhu. Where ever i go in England i see no Erhu's but i did see an Erhu player in the city centre at Bristol, he was to busy to talk to which was a shame, it did show how the Erhu attracts so many people though.

Thanks for the link.

[dsouthwood]

I have been searching the Internet hoping to find an English-language site selling the Seiko electronic erhu, but I have had no luck. As I noted above, I would like to have one for practice. Is there anyone participating in these forums who can help me order one from the Japanese site listed above? I have tried the email link on the Japanese site, but my emails just bounce back. I believe some of the forum participants are manufacturers or importers of instruments. Would you be willing to act as intermediary, or purchase the erhu and resell it to me? Please let me know if you are willing and how you would like to go about it.

[calden]

My wife teaches English to Japanese students as part of an exchange program with a university in Tokyo. I'll ask her if she can have one of her students see if they could order one. If it looks like it's a possibility, I'll let you know the details.

Carlos

[dsouthwood]

Thanks, Carlos, that would be very kind.

Dennis

[calden]

Hey Dennis:

My wife has the website address of the Seiko Electric erhu and will ask someone at work on Monday (fluent Japanese speakers) to help her figure out how to order it. I'll let you know.

Also, I sent you a PM about something, maybe you didn't get it. I'm wondering what the typical San Diego weather is like around Christmas. Our family is considering a week vacation there to get away from cold and snow. I wouldn't mind a day or rain or drizzle, and cloudy weather is fine, but I don't want to see solid stay-inside-the-house rain for a week. What's it like typically?

Thanks,
Carlos

[YouLanFengChune]

If You could not, calden, tell me as i might be able to help u. The prices in Japan are OBSCENE!
SOmething I sell (retail) for USD 320 sells for 100K yen!

My Distributor in Japan lectures in erhu for a music organisation as big as Seiko. They have regular deals and i might be able to help.

[dsouthwood]

Carlos,

Sorry I didn't even notice that I had messages. San Diego weather is almost always warm and dry. If there is a Santa Ana wind (our version of a Sirrocco), it can get extremely dry. San Diego is listed as a semi-arid climate, and rain is infrequent even during the so-called rainy season; I don't remember a wet Christmas in the 20 years I've been here. As the bumper stickers say, "Another ho-hum day in paradise." Email me ([e-mail]) when your plans are more firm. I would be happy to show you around.

I appreciate your help with the electonic erhu. I am willing to be patient, so if it takes a while to arrange something, I'm ok with that.

[Charlie Huang]

Well, I played Stephen Dydo's electric qin! Rather fun indeed. Had a bit of a giggle on one of his demos! LOL.

[dsouthwood]

To all:

I'm wondering if others are interested in purchasing an electronic erhu. If so, perhaps a group purchase could be arranged through one of the forum members who sells instruments. Is there a group?

Dennis

[annk]

I'm interested, but won't be able to afford one before the summer.