|
Post by davidmdahl on May 14, 2014 18:26:01 GMT
Thanks David for your advice. Do you have "Butterfly lovers" jianpu in G or D chords? I can't find any. I will have to dig for the score I used. It has been more than a few years ago, so finding it may take a while. I did attempt a search online late Monday night, but only found versions of the theme in C. Of course, with jianpu, it is easy to play a tune in any key you want, although sometimes it is necessary to make adjustments when the score goes out of range on the low side. If you have a score for Butterfly Lovers, try playing it in D. I found a one page score online, although it was in C and went into the third octave, which is usually a challenge for beginners. Again, you can play in a lower octave than indicated in the score, but I was trying to find a simplified arrangement that would not need adjustments. I haven't had a lot of free time to look, but will try to find something as I can make the time. Best wishes, David
|
|
penny
Intermediate
Posts: 34
|
Post by penny on May 15, 2014 8:09:14 GMT
Thank you very much for taking time to look for it. Somehow if the tune is played using another chord, it does not sound as nice as the original. My teacher played a famous Chinese pop song for me using D or G chord instead of the original B chord, it did not sound as nice though he played well. I know the song so therefore I know the difference. Given a song that I have not heard before then I cannot comment. Anyway your advice is always very helpful for me and I do appreciate it alot.
|
|
penny
Intermediate
Posts: 34
|
Post by penny on Oct 5, 2014 0:39:10 GMT
Yesterday I made a mistake with my HHR erhu. After learning for a year now I had wanted not to rely on the markings. My new teacher recommended me to use alcohol rub to erase the markings which was done by him using nail polish. The markings did come off but my HHR is defaced without the shine. So sad! BTW I have started learning the Butterfly lovers, it's a beautiful piece of music but I think it will take a few months of practice to become not so irritating to others'ears.
|
|
|
Post by song on Oct 5, 2014 4:30:34 GMT
Yesterday I made a mistake with my HHR erhu. After learning for a year now I had wanted not to rely on the markings. My new teacher recommended me to use alcohol rub to erase the markings which was done by him using nail polish. The markings did come off but my HHR is defaced without the shine. So sad! BTW I have started learning the Butterfly lovers, it's a beautiful piece of music but I think it will take a few months of practice to become not so irritating to others'ears. Usually we prefer to put white correction fluid markings on the strings rather than the erhu neck so as not to damage the wood. And there is no parallax error if the markings is done on the strings, just that it rubs off after a while. SW
|
|
penny
Intermediate
Posts: 34
|
Post by penny on Oct 6, 2014 23:58:27 GMT
Well, I applied some "pledge" (a form of wood shine)and it looks better now. Without the markings on the erhu, it is a real challenge at my age to remember the correct positions. I am often out of tune and tempted to put back all those markings once again but I know that should not be the way. I must learn to listen and remember the positions well.
|
|
|
Post by edcat7 on Oct 7, 2014 1:17:12 GMT
I used alcohol wipes on my LLS but luckily not much. I used pure carnauba wax to replace the bits I wore off and the results are good. But this is only a temporary measure and whatever I wore off will never be replaced. If you are wary about using carnauba wax best Google to find more information.
If you are having trouble with remembering where to place your fingers I would stick to one key. I'm currently on C key but constantly have to go back and play tunes in other keys (D,G and F) so I don't forget.
Ed
ps. your teacher should have known better.
|
|
|
Post by davidmdahl on Oct 7, 2014 8:35:44 GMT
Furniture polish such as Pledge is not recommended for cleaning up an erhu. It is more than likely to get things sticky and foul the bow hair. If you have a damaged area of wood, the carnauba wax Ed mentioned is a much better idea. I have also heard of the magical properties of something called Renaissance Wax. I have not used it myself, but I understand it has been recommended for other wooden instruments from knowledgeable people I trust. Under most conditions, it is best to wipe off the erhu wood with a clean dry cloth only. As Ed wrote, a teacher really should know better.
I never used marks to help me find the notes. If you practice regularly, it really does not take very long before the fingers learn where to go, guided by the ears. I have found it helpful to record my lessons, and play along with the recording during practice. Sometimes I set a drone tone on my tuner to play along with. That makes it easier to spot when my notes are not on pitch.
Best wishes,
David
|
|
|
Post by joyce on Oct 10, 2014 4:35:49 GMT
I am a 75 year old Caucasian woman who began learning to play erhu 18 months ago after attending a Pacific Symphony concert in which George Gao was guest artist. Fortunately, I live in Southern California, where there is a large Chinese population. My teacher, Laoshe Pu Yuning, is associated with the Central Conservatory of Music in Beijing. He is very traditional in his teaching methods, but believes in performance. He has an orchestra composed of his students of various traditional Chinese instruments. Most are Chinese-American teen-agers, who have been studying for many years. There are also about ten of us seniors ( I am second oldest), not nearly as good as the youngsters. We play for the local Chinese community ( Moon Festival, etc.) I was plunged into performing after six months and already did a solo ( Moli Hua) on local TV for Chinese New Year. It has been a most satisfying experience.
|
|
|
Post by edcat7 on Oct 10, 2014 9:02:06 GMT
Hi Joyce and welcome,
Congratulations on learning the erhu. I understand with what you mean about his teaching methods are very traditional, my teacher is the same. But then I've recently started on classical guitar tuition and the teaching is very similar in that the basics are heavily practised. Learning any instrument takes years of hard tuition.
I wish my erhu/dizi teacher had more students so we could perform together.
Best wishes
Ed
|
|
|
Post by davidmdahl on Oct 10, 2014 17:14:04 GMT
Welcome to the forum, Joyce and congratulations on your success on the erhu. You are lucky to live in such great location for learning erhu and Chinese music. I hope you continue to have fun. Please share your experiences, suggestions and questions as you see fit.
Best wishes,
David
|
|
penny
Intermediate
Posts: 34
|
Post by penny on Oct 11, 2014 0:12:51 GMT
Hi Joyce
You are an inspiration for me. I am learning from one teacher on a 1on1 and also attending group learning with 8 in a group. I don't find much satisfacion in group learning as our levels are of different grades and it can very frustrating. We only have 1 hour per lesson and I find I only have about 10 mins from the teacher. I am searching for another teacher and hopefully he or she can teach the way your teacher teaches. Hope to hear more of your learning experience.
Have a good day!
|
|
|
Post by edcat7 on Oct 11, 2014 1:54:11 GMT
Marking your erhu was poor judgement. However he is willing to teach Butterfly Lovers to novices. Like Carl it took me about three years of basics before I learnt my first serious piece, Liang Xiao.
I suspect those who self teach,(and I know you have a tutor),either don't realise how much work is required/don't have the patience or can't afford tuition. I guess Joyce performed the simple part of Mo Li Hua and it took her 18 months tuition. Enjoy the journey and don't crave for the destination. The end goal will always move.
If you feel badly about your defaced HHR you could always take it back to Eason who will send it back to Shanghai for repairs.
Ed
|
|
|
Post by sanmenxia on Oct 12, 2014 21:48:20 GMT
I think it's a bad idea to mark the neck itself with correction fluid or nail varnish etc. If you must use finger position marks, sticking a piece of paper or tape to the neck would be less damaging.
If the finish has come off with alcohol, then the finish is probably wax or shellac, which can be easily re-applied by almost anyone, ie it doesn't have to be done by a specialist. Wax polish is beeswax dissolved in turpentine, which you can make yourself or buy ready made.
|
|
|
Post by edcat7 on Oct 12, 2014 22:00:00 GMT
Good to hear from you again sanmenxia. I doubt the finish is shellac since shellac is quite fragile.
|
|
penny
Intermediate
Posts: 34
|
Post by penny on Dec 1, 2014 8:41:59 GMT
Can anyone tell me how long does the erhu string last if I am practising daily. Somebody told me the brand "fang fang" is good. Does good string makes any difference to the sound? Should I change the string to get a better sound even though they are not broken? Of course correct bowing is the ultimate answer but I am trying to achieve a good sound while at the same time improve my bowing technique.
|
|
|
Post by davidmdahl on Dec 1, 2014 18:11:08 GMT
Ah, the string questions. I have heard the advice to change strings once a year. My teacher rarely changes strings, and I imagine goes for years on the same set. He does play regularly. It must depend on the strings. I tend to leave the strings on until I am having problems that point to strings. This is sometimes not very clear, since the skin and wood of the erhu respond to changes in temperature and humidity, and sometimes problems with sound are not due to the strings. If the problems persist over time, I am more likely to suspect a string change is a good idea.
I have tried expensive and exotic strings, including silk (big mistake), but in the end returned to cheap steel strings. I like Huqiu strings, but Dunhuang or Mudan strings are reliable. I suspect that a particular brand of strings will sound great on one erhu, and so-so on another. Installing an expensive set will not necessarily improve the sound or playability, if it is not a good match for the erhu, or maybe for the player. The Fang Fang strings appear to be good and popular strings, but they do not suit me. That is not to say they won't work well on your erhu.
One thing I found out by experience, expensive strings will not fix a bad skin. Everything on the erhu must be of a minimum quality and adjusted properly, or the sound and playability will suffer. There is only so much you can fix by replacing the strings or bridge.
Best wishes,
David
|
|
penny
Intermediate
Posts: 34
|
Post by penny on Dec 1, 2014 23:46:00 GMT
Thanks David,
I will have to find one that suits my erhu besides improving my technique. I have just changed to another teacher and back to basic. I have to undo all my past bad habits and re learn how to bow correctly. It is worthwhile so that I can have a good foundation. I enjoy the music much better now with a good HHR erhu. The teacher is a young man and very patient with seniors like me. His other senior students who are over 60s have just passed Grade 4 exam. That's a great achievement at such an age!
|
|
|
Post by davidmdahl on Dec 2, 2014 0:01:50 GMT
Sounds like good things are happening, Penny. Just be patient with yourself, and don't forget to have fun.
I suspect that your strings don't need to be replaced. You might ask Sung Wah at Eason Music what strings he recommends for replacement. It is a good idea to have at least a set on hand in case you need it. In my experience, breakage is not common, but it could happen.
Best wishes,
David
|
|
|
Post by edcat7 on Dec 12, 2014 14:07:48 GMT
Huqin strings came supplied with my LLS and I thought they worked well. Lately I noticed it sounding dull and so changed them to some Dunhuang ones, (couldn't find my stash of Huqin strings) Dunhuang strings are supplied with my HHR. It was the first time since I purchased my LLS over three years ago that I changed the strings.
The tone immediately after changing them was a lot brighter and clearer but the D string in particular needs to settle down as I have to bow harder than normal. It's difficult to say which strings are better, as David has noted some strings may be better suited to one make of erhu than another.
|
|
penny
Intermediate
Posts: 34
|
Post by penny on Apr 20, 2015 0:21:18 GMT
Hi everyone!
I have been reading the threads regularly and getting valuable knowledge from all the erhu players here. This is a great website for beginners like me. It has been almost 20 months since I started learning erhu and I am still plodding my way through. 4 months ago I changed to another teacher and surprised to find out that I was not doing the bowing correctly and I had to start from scratch again. I am glad I found this qualified teacher who does his duty to correct the student's every move. Under him, you can be playing the same tune for months just to pick up the correct technique of playing that particular tune. Finding the correct teacher is very important for a beginner. I admire those who learn erhu without a teacher, that's very tough as there is no one to correct your mistakes.
However I am also grateful to my previous teacher for being so patient with me. My initial objective was to just play for fun and perhaps that's why he was not strict with me then. Over the past 1 year I had developed an intense interest in erhu that I wanted to achieve a minimum standard that is pleasing to my own ears. Thank goodness I can now at least satisfy my hearing desire and not damaging others' ear drums. But my close friends say they still need ear plugs, so sad........
Penny the senior citizen
|
|
|
Post by edcat7 on Apr 20, 2015 1:09:58 GMT
Has it been 20 months? How time flies; I've lost count how long I've been with my teacher. I think you've realised that learning Butterfly Lovers as a complete beginner was optimistic.
I'm currently on Wailing River. The notes aren't difficult as Sung Wah noted, it's the embellishments which makes it very difficult. Even after 3-4 years erhu tuition I'm finding Wailing River very challenging - especially since my teacher has a very limited English and I have no Mandarin.
|
|
|
Post by truckbuddha on Apr 26, 2015 5:00:20 GMT
Hi Penny, I think your thread has a great deal of encouragement in it for a lot us that are also middle aged and trying to learn something new for the first time. You really are an inspiration whether you know it or not. I have to agree with Ed's surprise that its been 20 months already since this thread began, but its as fresh and new as if it were just written this week. So easy to read, informative and interesting, its got everything, except drugs, sex and rock and roll, but hey, nothings perfect! LOL But seriously, two things from reading it really just keep nagging at me to comment on. The first is what your one teacher described your bowing as, "cooking vegetables". I put up a link to a youtube video that I am sure could classify most of the people as doing that kind of bowing. It looks like a beginner erhu class, and if you notice, the ages range from very young, to our advancing age, ha. www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZDYQ_fs_CcI do believe that Easons has a teaching video on the proper technique for bowing. It was described as, The elbow follows the arm, the wrist follows the elbow, the hand follows the wrist. And then backwards again. I would describe the method or style as a "wavy 'S'" or Serpentine or a fluid snake like movement. Like even when in some kungfu movies you see someone with his arm moving in a snake like way. Personally I would spend hours just watching the experienced erhu players on youtube and really concentrate and focus on their style and technique and movements. Then I would practice that or those movements where ever I was, if I was in a supermarket shopping, you wouldn't want to have been standing next to me because my arm would have been bowing an invisible erhu. Plus while sitting, that was also a great time to really practice bowing, just to develop the smoothness and to reinforce the proper technique. (I know your way beyond the basics by now, but someone else for the first time reading this may really benefit from these thoughts) You also really got me thinking seriously about the exams and passing the different grades or advancing through them. A big part of the why take exams seems to me from one comment you made about your friends commenting on your playing. I realized that if you had taken an exam and passed it, showing or proving your skill and knowledge level, you could comment back to your friends that your playing, style and performance is correct, and it is they that are wrong. but. It occurred to me that by having a grade level to associate yourself with at your skill level. You could or anyone could, easily interact more with other musicians and then have a basis to compare notes, so to speak. It would give each person a general idea of where they are in relation to others. And correspondingly enable a better exchange of thoughts, ideas and suggestions. As an example, if I was to tell another person I have been playing for almost 2 years, that in itself really doesn't tell them a lot. But if I was lets say to tell them, I am at grade 2 or maybe close to grade 3, then they can relate to that and either help me or give me advice, or even may ask me for mine if they are lets say at the same grade or lower. Plus I really feel or almost think that it would be a confidence builder, advancing through the grading system. It would help with clarity, focus and direction. I have seen children take the grade one violin exam with an adult playing along side of them on the piano. I don't know how far up the system that goes with another people playing along, but if a 4 or 5 year old child can pass grade one. Then it stands to reason that an adult should also easily be able to pass that and many others besides. I will confess, the exams seem to be very in earnest, or serious. Its not a social club status thing, but a real gage of a persons skills, knowledge and playing abilities. The ABRSM, "The Associated Board of the Royal Schools of Music". Is big in the UK and even has exams in the U.S. where I live. But I could only find for a regular violin. Which I must confess would be my only focus, even though I really do also love the erhu, however. So, perhaps David or Ed or someone could fill in this missing piece of info on where and who's exam would be the best fit for grading erhu playing. But to conclude. I applaud your contribution to this forum. I found your personal journey you openly shared online to be inspiring and encouraging. I hope you continue to write and share your experiences here. I also wish you the best of every good fortune on your journey as you grow and progress in your studies and playing. Sincerely, don
|
|
|
Post by edcat7 on Apr 26, 2015 18:43:31 GMT
Penny comes from Singapore where erhu exams are available. I would love to sit erhu exams but they are not available in the UK. Following an exam syllabus but not sitting the actual exam has it's benefits too: the lesson becomes more structured.
On the other hand concentrating solely on exam repertoire and sitting an exam can take the fun away. I'm taking classical guitar lessons and following the ABRSM syllabus but am not taking any exams. This gives me the freedom to explore other genres of music such as Bossa Nova.
|
|
penny
Intermediate
Posts: 34
|
Post by penny on Apr 29, 2015 8:36:29 GMT
Hi Don and Ed, Thank you for writing. All the erhu experts on this platform have been very encouraging and helpful. I agree with Don sitting for the exam can have my skills assessed and boost my confidence. However I also agreed with Ed: "that can take the fun away". With my 1st teacher I was learning 'oldies' which I could relate to and enjoyed myself though it was out of tune most of the time. With the present teacher I have to get every bow and sound right before he proceeds to something new. A teacher's teaching tells alot about his background on erhu. I am glad I finally found the right teacher because I want to have a good basic foundation.
Sometimes I feel bored having to practise the same tune for weeks and months and that's where Ed is right about "taking the fun away". I wish to have both - good technique and fun. For now, my priority is to master the proper technique of bowing. It is easy to say but not so easy to master when you have already picked up the bad habits. Well I can play a tune but 'the sound is not so nice', says my teacher. He encourages me to sit for the exam at year end but I am not sure. Some students only learn 2 to 3 tunes in a year just to prepare for the exam. BTW we have 2 exam sites in this country but they differ in awarding grades. The tune Sai Ma is grade 3 in one exam site but grade 4 in another. Shouldn't the grades be standardised? Would like to know your comments.
Penny
|
|
|
Post by truckbuddha on Apr 30, 2015 6:38:59 GMT
Hi Penny,
I really can't say anything about your exams, are they both though the NUS, National University of Singapore? Then I guess its just what each testing center considers right. I really don't know the answer, I am sure in your travels you'll meet someone that can better explain it.
However with bowing, you can really practice that anytime day or night without your erhu. I did, and got quite good at what I started to call the , "air-hu". An invisible erhu I practiced on while just sitting at work, while shopping for groceries, or any other time I remembered to do it. It was fun, and really helped me a lot. Plus you can also practice your fingering anytime as well, some even have had a part of a broom handle, and just imagined it to be the shaft of the erhu as they imagined practicing on the real thing.
Well I think the big question that will be asked is, "what song is it now that is taking so long to learn how to play?"
I can't comment on your teacher or his teaching style. But will say, that usually with other instruments, learning to play new songs is the way for advancement in learning notes, technique, and so on. Plus it keeps things moving to maintain motivation, interest, persistence, and does make learning more enjoyable, fun and even rewarding.
Bad habits. Its a common lament I have seen expressed over and over again, mostly by self taught people trying to teach themselves to play, then going for formal instruction from a qualified teacher. It seems you have crossed paths with two types of teachers. One who can play, maybe a little formal education, but mostly just relies on the time they have been playing as credentials. Then a college professor type, formally trained, who demands excellence and perfection from all his students.
This waste land between the two extremes is the question I had to answer for myself. And that is, is how seriously do I want my training to be, how exacting and perfecting, how precise and perfect, do I really want to become?
Your first teacher, "just play whatever makes you happy", your second teacher, "play it correctly and perfectly, even if learning to play it makes you unhappy".
Who knows maybe you'll find a 3rd that is a compromise between the two extremes?
I just want to mention, that in traditional violin training, playing the same piece for a hundred times, then for a second hundred times, and then even for a 3rd hundred times is the norm and general rule for a solid advancement. In addition to that, "conscious training", being always consciously aware of finger positioning, bowing, reading music, posture, all have to be in place.
Some musicians fall into the trap of just knowing the fingering and bowing, then proceed without really putting any more conscious thought into their playing, than they would while watching t.v. But being fully 'mindful' or 'mindfullness', being fully awake and aware is foundational to a good solid and steady success when it comes to learning and advancing in music.
I believe you really do care enough to be an wonderful musician one day. Just keep at it, and I am sure it'll all come together for you, in many wonderful and exciting ways Penny.
All good and exciting and wonderful things to you,
don
|
|