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Dec 9, 2008 13:00:25 GMT
Post by asr2008 on Dec 9, 2008 13:00:25 GMT
Hi everyone! I'm new to this board, so please bear with me. I am a sophomore in high school and am part of our school's science research program. My topic of study is the comparison of eastern and western classical music using fractal geometry. My problem is, while I can find plenty of western classical music, I can't find very much eastern music, and those pieces that I do find, I am not sure if they are folk songs or classical compositions. I don't want to compare Bach to a folk song, as that would hardly be fair . So, are there any pieces that you guys would recommend? And, where might I find them? Thanks Kate
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Dec 9, 2008 22:02:56 GMT
Post by davidmdahl on Dec 9, 2008 22:02:56 GMT
Welcome to the forum, Kate. I would like to help, but am not sure how. The category of Asian music is quite vast, including traditions from India, China, Japan, SE Asia, and others. Each are quite different from one another. Even within one culture, there is a variety of musical styles. It might help if you choose the musics that best fit your project and are accessible to you.
Are you looking for musical scores, or recordings? Your local library, Public or University, should have CDs available. You might even do some poking around on Amazon. There are samples available for many CDs.
I don't understand how fractal geometry can be used to analyse music, so I don't know what sort of music to recommend that would fit your project. However, I have heard of such approaches to the music of Bach, and Baroque music in general. With that in mind, maybe Jiangnan Sizhu (Silk and Bamboo music) would be worth considering. The famous tune Purple Bamboo (Zi Zhu Diao) is not apparently Jiangnan Sizhu, but it comes from a related tradition (Huju) and sounds a lot like the typical JS tunes.
Best wishes,
David
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Dec 10, 2008 12:52:25 GMT
Post by asr2008 on Dec 10, 2008 12:52:25 GMT
Thanks, David. For my project, I was going to focus more on East Asia, like China or Korea, but this was only because I am more familiar with those countries. However, I am clueless when it comes to Asian music (my exposure is limited to Disney's Mulan . My project uses fractal geometry to measure the distances between consecutive notes or chords and then represent them graphically. For more information, check out this article: www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1582330,00.html I was looking for scores, rather than recordings. I was able to find many recordings, but very few scores. I'll look up those pieces, too. Thanks very much. Kate
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Dec 10, 2008 23:14:51 GMT
Post by davidmdahl on Dec 10, 2008 23:14:51 GMT
Most scores for Chinese music are in jianpu (numeric) notation. Don't let this freak you out though, it is quite understandable without much trouble. The numeric nature of the notation may actually make it easier to use for your project. Two on-line sources of jianpu scores that come to mind are: www.summerthundermusic.com/index_files/repertoire.htmcadenzamusic.biz/scores.htmThere are some sites which host Chinese music scores in staff notation, but I don't have them at the moment. Keep in mind that music in staff notation might be stylistically Western, and not necessarily the best representative of Chinese music. Best wishes, David
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Dec 12, 2008 13:08:32 GMT
Post by asr2008 on Dec 12, 2008 13:08:32 GMT
Thanks once again, David. Just one problem, though; how do you read the jianpu?
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Dec 12, 2008 15:54:03 GMT
Post by davidmdahl on Dec 12, 2008 15:54:03 GMT
As with a wide range of topics, you can find out a lot with wikipedia.org and google.com. The jianpu article on wikipedia.org is particularly good. It seems to me that there is a pdf somewhere as well, but I will have to look for that.
Best wishes,
David
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Dec 18, 2008 12:32:36 GMT
Post by asr2008 on Dec 18, 2008 12:32:36 GMT
Thanks.
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Dec 18, 2008 15:46:31 GMT
Post by andrewwilt on Dec 18, 2008 15:46:31 GMT
Kate, If you would like more scores than what you find in our Summer Thunder website, I have a lot more that I have never gotten around to posting, since we haven't played them in the ensemble. (partially because they are beyond our abilities.)
What Western pieces are you considering? Maybe we can come up with some suggestions as to comparable Chinese pieces in terms of complexity and age.
Does anybody have suggestions for pieces she could use?
Andrew
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Dec 20, 2008 14:17:09 GMT
Post by calden on Dec 20, 2008 14:17:09 GMT
Kate: I don't know if this helps, but there is a body of Chinese musical research that comes from archeology. In the 1970's archeologists found a tomb of a local hotshot, and it included a complete set of bronze age bronze bells, made for and meant for musical performance, from 450 BC. The tone generation and music generation was all based on mathematics. It's very interesting. I saw these at the museum site in China when I was last there in 2001. You can get recordings of these things - the music isn't written out per se but rather indicated by inscriptions on the bells. Here's a website (one of many) to get you started: web.telia.com/~u57011259/Zengbells.htmI think I know what you are doing with music and geometry. I studied art in college, and became fascinated by trying to paint music. I listened to varying types of music while doing quick free-form abstract painting. I noticed that paintings made to Bach were extremely ordered and geometric. I can see how the rules of fractal geometry apply to music. This is sometimes more obvious when you look at the scores and see the neat and orderly 8 bars per page organization. Good luck. Sounds like a fascinating project. You are lucky to have teachers who support this kind of interest. Carlos
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Jan 20, 2009 13:14:51 GMT
Post by asr2008 on Jan 20, 2009 13:14:51 GMT
Thanks everyone.
Andrew, there are plenty of scores one the website for the stage of research I am at now. Thank you for the offer though.
I'm looking Vivaldi's Four Seasons, Pachelbel's Cannon, and assorted Bach and Mozart pieces. It would be very helpful if you could recommend comprable pieces. I'm pretty scared of comparing Bach and a folksong. Not that I have anything against folk music; it just wouldn't be the same.
Carlos- Thanks for the link. It's very interesting, especially since I have recently begun to explore different tuning systems.
Thanks for all your help. Kate
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Jan 21, 2009 9:45:32 GMT
Post by davidbadagnani on Jan 21, 2009 9:45:32 GMT
Two of the greatest Korean court pieces are Sujecheon and Yeongsan Hoesang. They're considered truly high art among all the East Asian traditions.
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Mar 10, 2009 12:14:38 GMT
Post by asr2008 on Mar 10, 2009 12:14:38 GMT
Hello all,
I have another question. What time period do you think best exemplifies the characteristics of East Asian music?
Thanks very much.
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Mar 10, 2009 22:49:40 GMT
Post by davidmdahl on Mar 10, 2009 22:49:40 GMT
Hello all, I have another question. What time period do you think best exemplifies the characteristics of East Asian music? Thanks very much. Which East Asian music? There are so many to choose from. For every living tradition, changes creep in over time. While you or I may prefer one over the other, I don't think you can objectively choose a single representative. I suggest that you just choose one or more traditions and time periods that make your project interesting. Best wishes, David
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