What do you use to record your music??

[blob]

Hello!
Lots of advice on this forum and elsewhere points to recording ourselves playing being a very important aspect of learning to play nice music.
However, I am curious, what type of equipment do you use in your home to record yourself.. how faithful is the recording to the actual tone produced by you??

(switching to blame-the-equipment mode)
At the moment, when I record myself playing the dizi, I use an "off-the shelf for computer" microphone (about 5 quid in pc world I think) connected to the iriver mp3 player.

However, when hearing the recording, the tone sounds really horrible, rather "muffled" or dull!! I cannot really hear the buzzing reediness of the dizi in the recording even though I think can hear it pretty clearly whilst playing. This is unless I move it very very close to the flute, whereby lots of static comes in because of the volume of the dizi...I am now a bit paranoid as to whether I am just hearing things that don't exist of it is cheap equipment messing it up.. Sometimes the recording is slightly out of tune, but I think that is definately me..

Any recommendations on what good mics and stuff to get for recording ourselves? What do you use? Do you find it good?

[paulv]

Hi Blob,

I also use a cheapo computer microphone and use a couple of audio software packages. I originally used Audacity but I started having problems with exporting to mp3 format when I went from Win2K to WinXP Pro. Because of this, I switched to Wavepad. I've gotten OK results witht he cheapo microphone if I adjust the input volume to midway on the WinXP control panel, and then adjust on the audio program.

A while back, I did search for alternative microphones, but there was always an impedance mismatch between the mike and the computer input, so I gave up on it.

Good luck,

Regards,
paul...

[calden]

blob: (nice name)

I've done lots of pro recording. Flutes are hard to get to sound right - if the mic's too close you hear a lot of the breathy sound, and, as you've learned, the volume peaks produce transient spikes, which, with digital recording, translate to the "static" you hear. I advocate trying to move back from the mic. Put the mic in one position and walk around it, playing the exact same note or passage at different spots in the room, and identifying each spot with your voice (so you can remember which one sounded best.) YOu'd be surprised at how much of a sound change can result from moving a foot up and a foot to the left, for example. (Wait a minute - would that be a meter? Or a metre? No, you're in England. Never mind.)

Also don't forget that any kind of blown instrument sounds quite different from the player's viewpoint (HEAR-point?) so what a listener hears, and what the mic hears, will not be what you as the player hears.

To pick up the buzzing bamboo membrane, try positioning the mic above you, like hung from a lamp or something.

Hope some of these observations make sense and help.

Carlos

[Si]

well i use my iPAQ to record me and my teacher. Sounds crap but its damned handy to help me remeber a piece or chart my progress.

[davidmdahl]

Since the mid-1990's I have been using a minidisc recorder to record lessons and practicing. If I use it right, the recordings can be quite good. I have found that the sound quality is very sensitive to the quality of the microphone. I have been tempted to buy a better microphone for field recordings. The dan bau recordings on my website are not a fair representation, and I will redo them soon.

There are several MP3 recorders that are intended for high-quality field use. The R-1, made by Edirol, looks fairly promising, but a new model is coming out soon that might be more my style. They are expensive, around $400 on the street, but it would be convenient to be able to quickly transfer recordings via USB rather than optically at real-time.

The dirt-cheap mics sold for computer use are really awful and next-to-useless for recording music.

Best wishes,

David

[davidmdahl]

paulv said:

A while back, I did search for alternative microphones, but there was always an impedance mismatch between the mike and the computer input, so I gave up on it.

You can solve such problems with a small mixer. The cheap ones can be noisy, but they are probably still higher grade than the audio electronics on the typical sound card. I have a Behringer mixer that works quite well for the price.

Best wishes,

David

[Charlie Huang]

Cheapo PC mic is crap for home music recordings. I've had a lot of static from my qin recordings, plus the sounds sound 'metallic' (dings rather than dums) and 'empty' compared to CD recordings. As one of my pisstakers of my other forum said, it sounded like a was tuning an instrument rather than playing it. He was harsh but I agree that the quality was crap.

Here's some info about JT's experiments with recording qin music:

www.silkqin.com/01mywk/rcdtls.htm

I'd love to get proper equipment to record good music, coz my qin can create good sounds; but I don't have money to splash out on expensive equipment, I'd rather save up for a better instrument coz at the end of the day, I'm playing qin for performance rather than recordings.

[calden]

CCC:

Good for you. I can't tell you the number of fine musicians I know who spend money and time fooling around with electronics. It's tempting - for $1200 one can purchase a mini-recording studio sufficient to make CD quality recordings, but people underestimate the amount of time it takes to learn to use it. I myself have wasted enough time to raise another family by tinkering with mic placement and eq settings and bit rates and God knows what else, when I should have just been playing! It's the same with chasing after the "perfect" instrument.

This is not to say it's not valuable to have a decent recording device. I just like your attitude, and would like to see more of it in the musical community I hang around in. I think one should use a recording to check how they play but in the long run not worry about the quality of sound too much.

Carlos

[blob]

Thanks for all the responses! Yes, I fully agree with Charlie too, in that playing the instrument should come first before expensive stuff for recording. It was also not my intention to get do a full mini recording studio setup (well not at this stage anyway)
However, I was wondering if there is something better than just getting a el-cheapo mic + mp3 player, maybe something which costs a bit more but not so much more, but has much better results in terms of quality of whatever it records.. but i agree also, that there is much to be gained by listening to recordings of meself playing even though it may not be the perfect quality.. (e.g. timing, in-tuneness, etc...)

Thanks everyone!

[Si]

then you have to worry about finding a quiet place - if you are outside then i think theres loads of places in england

call a local college or Uni - they might be so intrigued with the qin that they dont mind spending 30 mins giving u some advice in there studios.....

[davidmdahl]

blob said:

However, I was wondering if there is something better than just getting a el-cheapo mic + mp3 player, maybe something which costs a bit more but not so much more, but has much better results in terms of quality of whatever it records.. but i agree also, that there is much to be gained by listening to recordings of meself playing even though it may not be the perfect quality.. (e.g. timing, in-tuneness, etc...)

The most economical way to get a good recording of yourself is with a minidisc recorder. The cheapest one I know of with a mic input is about $200. You can get a reasonably good microphone for less than $100. Be aware that minidisc recorders are on their way out, and probably will not be marketed in a few years. Hopefully media will still be available for a while after that.

MP3 recorders will soon be the way to go, if not already. Most of the current MP3 recorders are only intended for voice recording (when using the mic), not music. The Edirol recorders are some that are intended for high quality field recording of music.

Best wishes,

David

[Charlie Huang]

I will probably spend a bit of money on a good mic, but reluctant to get other devices. I find it soothing and rewarding to hear a good quality recording of your own playing; it gives you a boost to motivate you to continue on.

[blob]

Cool, so, what would be a good-ish mic that is say below $100 suitable for recording instruments? Brand, model info perhaps?

Also, David, what differentiates a mp3 player for recording voice only and one that could be used for recording music? Which aspects of the sound is sacrificed? Does this apply to those mp3 players with line-in as well (the iriver I have has a line-in, as well as a built in mic.. built in mic mode is really bad, when recording just about anything..you can make stuff out yes.. but...)Hmm.. I'll check out them edirol ones though

[calden]

blob:

For information (and where you can buy them) on mindisk recorders, go to:

www.minidisco.com/

Good site. Been around for years. Generally well-regarded.

Here is a link to a pro audio place in the states, Sweetwater, that is a page of the mp3 recorders that David speaks of:

www.sweetwater.com/store/category/c860

I don't know what the equivalent place in England would be. I know these are a bit pricey. Even the cheapest ones at $399 are not cheap. But I'm jonesing for one myself.

I took a minidisk recorder and little external microphone to China four years ago and did field recordings of trad music in the parks. Amazing sound quality - to a non-pro studio sound person, as good as a CD. My Celtic band mastered our first two CDs onto a rack-mounted minidisk recorder, then burned a CD master from that. It takes very scrupulous listening to discern any differences. Even the inexpensive minidisk recorders with a separate external mic are miles and miles beyond a tape recorder.

However, in China, I had to be concerned about motion and vibration, dust and dirt, couldn't directly to to my computer via USB, etc. I'd LOVE to have one of the flash MP3 units now. Heck, I think I'll buy one.

Carlos

[sanmenxia]

I used to use a Sony Walkman Professional for live recording, but the mic and headphone socket don't work properly now, although the line in and out 's OK so I use it just as a tape deck. For recording at home, I use a small condenser mic (cheapish but not $10 type) connected to my computer soundcard. I've been looking to get a portable digital recorder for quite a while, once I thought about getting a Dat portable recorder, but they seem to have something which stops you making multiple copies of a recording which did put me off. So now I’m looking at solid state recorders which use compact flash memory cards:

Marantz PMD660 Portable Solid State Recorder
www.d-mpro.com/users/folder.asp?FolderID=3629
About £380, US $500?

also there is the Edirol R1, a bit cheaper £300, US $400? Also has metronome and pitch sounds for tuning.
Both can record as WAV or MP3 files, although I’d prefer not to use compressed formats like mp3 for the original recording.

I think on low quality recordings the tone will sound bad (sounds like you’re playing in the next room or you’re frying sausages at the same time), but playing in or out of tune will still show up quite clearly.
When I’m away from my computer I use my digicam to check my playing.

[calden]

sanmenxia said:

So now I’m looking at solid state recorders which use compact flash memory cards:

Marantz PMD660 Portable Solid State Recorder
www.d-mpro.com/users/folder.asp?FolderID=3629
About £380, US $500?

also there is the Edirol R1, a bit cheaper £300, US $400?I think on low quality recordings the tone will sound bad (sounds like you’re playing in the next room or you’re frying sausages at the same time), but playing in or out of tune will still show up quite clearly.

Yeah - that's among those I listed in the website.

Now you're talking about frying sausages. It's 9 am on Saturday morning here in the Pacific Northwest US, and I haven't had breakfast yet. But now you've got me really hungry. Time to go get an omelette.

carlos

[oltrelogo]

The qualities of recordings have come close to studio quality. Major music software companies are bringing out cheaper, less complicated software, especially for home use. Mics and mixers are cheaper and home recording coupled with my space and the Internet is quickly becoming a good way for bands and musicians to get there stuff out there.

[edcat7]

I record my music lessons on an Olympus DS 40 (or 45,50,55,65,75) voice recorder on high quality setting and get a goodish sound when plugged into external speakers (mains operated). It is available on ebay but don't pay more than £45 as there are plenty of them. I find it indispensable, nay ESSENTIAL

On day when I am good enough I plan to make my own CD's and sell them whilst busking and this I will need an Olympus LS 11. This is what professional musicians and journalists use. It's expensive but by the time I need it the price would have dropped considerably on ebay.

[sanmenxia]

How time flies!

Since my last post I've bought an Edirol R09, which I've had for nearly 4 years now. Cost was £250 (about US$350-400?). So far I've only used the built-in mics, I was maybe going to get an external mic for it but I'm more than satisfied with the built-in mics. Plus it keeps it more portable without having to carry around extra bits. It is quite flimsy and fragile though, without the 2 AA batteries it weighs hardly anything.

I also use it to convert LPs and cassettes to digital using the line in socket.

If sound quality is the main goal, then your recorder needs to be able record in uncompressed WAV format.

An alternative would be a budget studio mic, an USB audio interface and a laptop or desktop computer, although for important one-off recordings like a concert there's always the chance that the computer will crash. And obviously not suited for "stealth" recording.

[davidmdahl]

Since this thread began, I bought a Sony PCM-M10 that works well for me. I liked the Minidisc recorder, but they have stopped making new batteries for it, so it has become impractical.

I usually use the built-in mics, but my external mic, a Sony stereo mic that is larger than the recorder, sounds noticeably better. It is also important not to use the automatic volume leveling. I find that a lot of the expression gets taken out that way. Of course, you have to be more careful to set the recording level.

Best wishes,

David