Top-range guzhengs: what ARE they?

[guzhenglover]

OK, seeing that this part of the forum has been so quiet, here's a contribution from me. What would people say a top-of-the-range guzheng should look like? I am thinking about things like the factory, timber, price, features, etc.? I know there are some more or less standard lines that people say - like people who sell guzhengs - but I'd like to call for as many different views that may be out there as possible.

Also I've often wondered why people don't talk about investing in old antique guzhengs the way they do for guqins. Are old or antique guzhengs inferior to old or antique guqins?

And are there actually guzheng mastermakers who have handmade guzhengs the same way there are guqin mastermakers?

Any thoughts?

[YouLanFengChune]

Well, I have bad experiences with many guzhengs at different times, including the ones I carry.

The best i carry, hmm, Zitan Guzheng from Dunhuang, with Silver Inlay. SOME of them come with a calligraphy and SEAL from Dunhuang and XU ZHEN GAO. They have some of the clearest sound i hear.

Many people like BIG sounds, but the movers and shakers told me, its not volume that matters, its the clarity of the sound. a good guzheng has clearn enough tones to ensure that his sound is above that of an orchestra and not drowned out!

[Charlie Huang]

As far as I can tell, guzheng, like pipa, Japanese koto, etc, have a limited lifespan. I'm not sure why. Maybe because they degrade more rapidly from the excessive pressures of modern play. Guqin, otoh, is relatively stable and doesn't suffer from such stresses, more so with silk strings; metal nylon strings tend to wear out the lacquer in a few years, requiring repair to the lacquer, but that's about it. It really depends on how much you play the instrument.

[carol]

Yes, clarity is the number one thing I look in a good quality guzheng. It's probably not because clarity stands out in the orchestra, since I don't really play in an orchestra. It's that the blurring sound is killing my ears, and unfortunately 99% of the guzhengs sound hallow and blurring in the middle part because of the limitation of flatsawn cut in such a big piece board.

Then I look for dynamics, individual string sounding, volume, etc.

Guzheng, Koto, and those other Asian zithers all have shorter lifespan, at maximum of 30 years. It's due to their soundboard is nearly unfinished that provide the best desired sounding from these instruments. The sound quality goes downhill after certain years because of the natural wearing of the soundboard. That is, an antique might look nice and attractive, but it won't sound good.

[carol]

By the way, in guzheng industry, when it's said handmade by the master maker, it usually means the master maker cut the soundboard himself. Things such as decoration is the job of craftman.

My favorite maker is definetely Tianyi's Wang Jianchun. He is in a class of his own, far suppassing any others. Among my 7 guzheng collection now, 4 are made by Wang Jianchun, 2 are made by Dunhuang's Tian Jienzhen, and one is Scarlet Bird#10.

[guzhenglover]

Thanks guys for the interesting feedback. Still I am curious about antique guzhengs. Do these exist, or can they only be found in museums and tombs? Are you guys saying, don't expect to find any decent playable guzheng that's over 30 years?

This new finding about the relatively short lifespan of guzhengs really comes as a shock...

[YouLanFengChune]

erm.... The current model with S shape only existed for abt 30 years......

[Vi An]

As long as the internal wood bracings and skeleton of any Asian long zither is mainted and not warped nor rotted, the aging of that instrument and the more it is seasoned with performance I can only say it will improve on its sound. Instruments are being taken better care of in this era than ever before so the life span of instruments are no factor in degrading of sound. I don't notice any decay of sound on my Dunhaung dual cranes towards the sun. Its prolly not the BEST sounding instrument but everyone who hears it falls in love with the sound more so than my other instruments. Its preference for the most part when we talk about sound and tone. But there is something to be said about pure and clear tones that can only be found on the odd or rare pieces made by master luthiers/craftsman. If makers are not consistent with putting out quality sounding instruments each and everytime than maybe something isn't right. My recently acquired koto is 45 years old atleast and its immaculately taken care of, the sound on this instrument is even, clear and sonarous, well, when I can play it well and not just fooling around. That koto demands so much respect and practice etc...

I hope they will continue to make advancements and experiemnt more with the "S" curve. My luthier friends think it is infact more decorative first and functional second, it is over engineering to over compensate for the tention of the strings on the sound board, but not entirely necissary. I think my "ex-boyfriend" will come up with a very innovative and revolutionary gu zheng for me in the future. He not only works on antique bowed instruments, but guitars and zithers of other countries and dulcimars too. Shows tremendous promise and has such curiosity in the gu zheng.

[Vi An]

What is the "best" I believe is only relative to the listener's preference. I still firmly believe that a musician who is masterful in expressing themselves musical and is proficient on an instrument of choice, if that instrument is a good instrument -- it will sound brilliant to us because we are in awe of the performance. Demanding a quality instrument with masterful results -- expecially with the making of these sorts of instruments (gu zhengs & other long Asian zithers) is like a poker game at a casino. There is no real way of looking at a stack of wood and judging it for sound quality. Only until it is made into a complete instrument can that be achieved. You can have a rough idea, I mean -- let me ask this, the person who goes out to pick and grade the woods isn't the same person who carves the wood is it?? From what my luthier friends say, it costs a lot and takes a lot of time to pick and choose, sometimes you can't afford to be picky. A perfect piece of wood and beautifully crafted instrument could end up on the lower end models only because the tone quality turned out to be not as rich. Or they will sell it at a higher price just for its art value.

I want to have the freedom and luxury one day to visit all the gu zheng houses and play every one of them and pick out the best one that sings to my soul.

I'm such a romantic, Charlie is right!

[dyland48]

While I was watching the old folks playing the Guzheng in one of Wang Zhong Shan's VCD from the various schools, the guzhengs look very old but sounded very very good.
Not sure if they are made by DunHuang or other famous brands or they are ranked among the top range Guzhengs (of course I mean not the one showing Wang ZS playing)
Anyone has any idea?

[carol]

The one with animal carving in the front?

[shoppingchinanow]

I just wonder why people always hope to have guqin cut by the big-boys, it is said that a guqin costs over usd30,000 made with aged chinese fir wood. In my experience, those guqin that has a price level of abt. usd800 is enough for even the profesional players.

And as to Guzheng, those produced by Dunhuang is absolutely enough for most players, as their playing techniques is indeed not so good, I don't think a guqin made of ebony wood and costs over usd1500 is a good choice.

[simon18i]

I think is the wood quality and the semifinished state of guzheng that contributes to its limited lifespan. wood finishes will help spread out the pressure and vibration and prevents the wood from deteriorizing and becoming spongy after long years of playing.

I do notices most guzheng sounds hollower at the middle of the strings, thats why the guqin has cleaverly incorporated the "na yin" or "sound retainers". its a thicker part of wood at the bottom middle part of the soundboard to contain the sound.

In guzheng construction, the soundboard has bracing under the bridge that prevented the hollowness from abruptly coming to an end towards the bass string which lies near the body of the guzheng. some guzheng has about an inch of free space at both end of the "nut" to pull more vibration towards the soundboard.