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Post by lumry on Feb 5, 2006 23:44:31 GMT
hey does anyone have the music for flowing water, The water and the cloud of xiao xiang?...if so please email it to me...thanks
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Post by Charlie Huang on Feb 6, 2006 17:38:29 GMT
Lumry-san. How long have you been learning qin? Because Liu Shui and Xiaoxiang Shuiyun are both difficult pieces to get right without a teacher to guide you. I'd say you need at least 2 and a half years of playing qin until you do LS seriously, and at least 3 years to do XXSY. I tried LS a few years back and got no where with it. It was until I recieved expert tuition from Zeng Chengwei that I am able to play it gracefully with ease. I learnt XXSY a while back, completely forgot how to play it now; I tried to re-learn it, but failed because I realised I need a teacher to guide me properly.
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Post by lumry on Feb 6, 2006 22:04:25 GMT
Lumry-san. How long have you been learning qin? Because Liu Shui and Xiaoxiang Shuiyun are both difficult pieces to get right without a teacher to guide you. I'd say you need at least 2 and a half years of playing qin until you do LS seriously, and at least 3 years to do XXSY. I tried LS a few years back and got no where with it. It was until I recieved expert tuition from Zeng Chengwei that I am able to play it gracefully with ease. I learnt XXSY a while back, completely forgot how to play it now; I tried to re-learn it, but failed because I realised I need a teacher to guide me properly. ohh i have been playing for 10 years....i started very young and was taught by my grandfather |
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Post by Charlie Huang on Feb 7, 2006 18:09:30 GMT
OH! OK then, I'll see what I can find/do. Do you want the versions in the Guqin Quji? Or do you want the version of LS that Zeng Chengwei taught me (might be difficult to obtain)?
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Post by lumry on Feb 7, 2006 21:23:18 GMT
OH! OK then, I'll see what I can find/do. Do you want the versions in the Guqin Quji? Or do you want the version of LS that Zeng Chengwei taught me (might be difficult to obtain)? well send me the guqin quji...and if you can find the LS version then send that too...but if you can't than thats ok ;D |
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Post by Charlie Huang on Feb 8, 2006 13:58:08 GMT
The ZCW score is a photocopy of his personal tablature, but he misses out the '72 gunfu' bits... Anyways, I think it's best not to coz there are some techniques for it that require instruction, like how to do xiao dayuan and da dayuan, etc. I'll do the GQQJ one for you. You'll have to wait till Saturday when I have time.
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Post by lumry on Feb 8, 2006 21:48:25 GMT
The ZCW score is a photocopy of his personal tablature, but he misses out the '72 gunfu' bits... Anyways, I think it's best not to coz there are some techniques for it that require instruction, like how to do xiao dayuan and da dayuan, etc. I'll do the GQQJ one for you. You'll have to wait till Saturday when I have time. ohh ok ;D...ohh do you have any guqin music that has a happy tune to it to?...an example would be like wild drinker |
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Post by Charlie Huang on Feb 19, 2006 12:26:21 GMT
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Post by lumry on Feb 20, 2006 21:43:01 GMT
i did ask for the Guqin Quji one....  i posted it up above |
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Post by blueharp on Feb 21, 2006 7:46:17 GMT
Wow! Thank you for posting this! Something to look forward to. |
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Post by Si on Feb 21, 2006 7:52:52 GMT
how come there are so many versions of the same tunes in this book? Are they of different difficulty levels?
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Post by Charlie Huang on Feb 21, 2006 9:24:57 GMT
They are different versions from different transcriptions from different handbooks. i did ask for the Guqin Quji one.... i posted it up above That IS from GQQJ! |
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Post by sleepy on Feb 24, 2006 1:00:38 GMT
how come there are so many versions of the same tunes in this book? Are they of different difficulty levels? It's very common. Musicians are very individualistic beings. Even 2 people playing the same version each will have a different rendition. |
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Post by Si on Feb 24, 2006 5:45:34 GMT
does that mean that if you play any piece but do not follow the notes or fingerings exactly then its ok, and not regarded as wrong?
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Post by blueharp on Feb 24, 2006 8:32:49 GMT
That is a great question. And the answer is... maybe
According to John Thompson, guqin is taught primarily one to one - student copying the teacher EXACTLY.
He states that his first teacher expected him to play EXACTLY the same way as the teacher. Whenever Mr. Thompson made a variation, his teacher would correct him.
He also stated that the teacher seemed to have no difficulty with variants.
Conclusion:
In the beginning- EXACTLY as your teacher plays it.
Later as competency builds variations are acceptable.
This is also in line with many music pedagogy techniques - namely Suzuki method - the student learns by copying the teacher. Notation is not used in the beginning.
Also considering the age of some guqin pieces, it is not completely surprising that there are so many variants. Someone 4 or 5 hundred years ago made a small change. Each of their students made a tiny change. 5 centuries later - many variations.
I think what is more surprising is that there aren't MORE variant versions of pieces.
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Post by Charlie Huang on Feb 24, 2006 9:26:12 GMT
That is why the qin tradition is a more flowing and changing one that survives today.
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Post by Si on Feb 24, 2006 10:51:34 GMT
Sounds like chinese whispers to me.
But remeber that the asian way of teaching and learning is well known to be (as you say) learning by rote, copy copy copy.
This is well known to not be that great for stimulating creativety and inovation.
I am in the design profession and can attest to that having worked in asia for ages.
Cheers.
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Post by Charlie Huang on Feb 24, 2006 13:22:42 GMT
But the same can be said for Western Classical. You can hardly change or embelish an established score without getting kicked for it. If you try and deviate from a violin score, you'll get a smack from the violin teacher.
For me, this tradition of copying preserves culture. If Song Huizong hadn't copied some of the paintings (that are now lost), we wouldn't know if they even existed.
Of course, in this age, this sort of thing does not need to be followed, coz there is no danger of the arts (at least for the more popular mediums) being 'lost'. The qin, however, is on a borderline. My peers say that we need to learn scores to preserve the ones we already know, before moving onto dapu of old scores, and only then can you attempt composition and improvisation (both these require you to be at a very high level anyway, which the learning of established scores and dapu provides the foundation).
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Post by sanmenxia on Feb 24, 2006 21:28:44 GMT
I think in the Chinese tradition, the student copies from the teacher note for note at first. It’s only when the student becomes as good as or better than the teacher then they can start to play their own version. The student has to be completely familiar with the music, they just can’t improvise any way they like, it has be within the tradition.
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Post by davidmdahl on Feb 25, 2006 0:40:26 GMT
I think in the Chinese tradition, the student copies from the teacher note for note at first. It’s only when the student becomes as good as or better than the teacher then they can start to play their own version. The student has to be completely familiar with the music, they just can’t improvise any way they like, it has be within the tradition. I agree. This is true of traditional music in general, not just Chinese. There is composed music that is expected to be played in a very specific manner. Western classical music is a typical example, although there is more variety of expression possible than you might think. From the recordings of Erquan Yingyue I have heard, there does not seem to be a lot of variation in the way this great tune is played, at least when done on solo erhu. Best wishes, David |
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Post by sleepy on Feb 25, 2006 2:54:56 GMT
does that mean that if you play any piece but do not follow the notes or fingerings exactly then its ok, and not regarded as wrong? Let's put it this way. Musical scores are not meant to be followed like gospel, they are just a written record of the composer's creation and players are often welcomed to inject their own interpretation by adding dynamics or modifying the tempo, whatever helps the players articulate a piece really. It's just the nature of music, which is an art form, one can't really draw a strict standard to say what should be and what shouldn't. Even more so for the qin cos it's a solo instrument most of the time, qin players have got used to playing however they like, a classic example is that, it is acceptable for the qin not tuned to absolute pitches. In fact, in the ever so competitive professional music arena, you need to have a certain level of individuality to standout and make a name of yourself. However, there is this old saying: learn all the rules before you try to break any. |
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i posted it up above
