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Post by Charlie Huang on Sept 29, 2004 10:23:09 GMT
Yes, that is the se, though most seem to be ancient versions. The one I saw Wu Jinglue play was in several old photographs on his CD "The Qin Repetorie of Wu Jinglue" (which I don't have yet), and it looked huge! Note that some pictures in the first link (particularly the bottom ones) are qins rather than ses. But I read a lot of the first link, very interesting. The se can have up to 50 strings! Then, there is the average 25 and the smaller 13 stringed variety! I think ses are used much for performances for tourists (like with the bianzhong) rather than for actual ritual or active study of it. I'd love to obtain a se one day...
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Post by Vi An on Sept 30, 2004 4:07:56 GMT
Thank you for those helpful links 'asharpe'! How nice.
So that is a 'Se'. Interesting. It is wide and dulcimar like but not any longer in length than my 26-stringed zheng, you are right Charlie mine does resemble it. I like the lady's dress in the first link so much!!! I am such a "period" (period films, ancient arts, etc) lover though. *Blush*.
The Japanese 30-stringed koto's bridges I noticed are set up in a similar formation as the 'Se'. Two sections of bridges clearly organizing major octave ranges. But the 30-stringed koto is nearly 7 and a half - 8 feet in lenth and a gu zheng and a half in widths! A bit much! But I would still love to own one *haha*!
More soon,
Vi An.
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Peter Kahl
Novice
Guzheng instrument designer, winner of the Japanese Product of the Year 1999 and 2000 award
Posts: 11
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Post by Peter Kahl on Nov 1, 2004 2:12:39 GMT
The question - how many strings is best for Guzheng - is wrong. One or 2 strings more doesn't make a Guzheng better or worse. The matter of fact is, that most contemporary Chinese (or newly rearranged) music is written for 21-string guzheng (at least Chinese Guzheng). Therefore, my choice is 21 strings. Also, did you know the recent history of Guzheng? There is one old man in China, master Xu, who is the teacher of all guzheng makers in China. You can find the details at www.guzheng.idv.hk/en/guzheng.php#xu.
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Post by Vi An on Nov 7, 2004 20:25:57 GMT
Hello All,
Hope you are all doing well!
I always wonder about if it is a good or bad idea to remove the bridges after every use and put them back in before performing? Will it hurt anything (except take a lot of time)? I ask because I know that with the koto it is religious to remove the bridges after every use so that the strings do not continue to stretch out due to the fact it is impossible to tune up the individual strings without a koto maker around. Further more we're talking about tetlon (nylon) strings and piano wire wrapped with silk/nylon strings, very different properties and require very different care / attention...
With respects always,
Vi An.
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Post by davidmdahl on Nov 8, 2004 7:35:57 GMT
I would not remove guzheng bridges when it is not in use, although it might not be a bad idea to do so when transporting the instrument. I would probably error on the side of making it easy to practice. If I would need to spend an extra 15 minutes to set up before I could begin practicing, I might not bother so much. My practicing happens when I can squeeze the time between various obligations, and I learn well through short sessions rather than one long session per day.
I am sure there are good reasons for removing the koto bridges, but they only have 13 strings so the hassle is not so bad.
Best wishes,
David
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Post by blueharp on Nov 11, 2004 6:17:20 GMT
Hi Vi An,
From what I can gather from the Taiwan Dunhuang site, the only time the bridges should be removed is for long distance transport.
Apparently leaving them in contributes to the overall stability and response of the instrument.
Steve
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Post by Vi An on Nov 11, 2004 16:00:59 GMT
Thank you Steve!
That is very helpful to know.
I am going to throw this question out anyways:
Sometimes when the bridges all fall over it dents the top of the paulownia a little -- what can be done to lift the dents, anyone???
Yes I'm a perfectionist. *Sigh*
Thank you and my best to all,
Vi An.
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Post by Charlie Huang on Nov 11, 2004 17:13:30 GMT
I have some dents and cracks on my guqin, and I assume that in order for me to 'repair' it, I must go to a guqin or instrument maker for it to be re-lacquered, etc. I'm not sure you can easily repair dents and cracks, coz you might make it worse. But then again, for the guqin, dents and cracks can add character to the instrument (special cracks caused due to ageing of the lacquer is something to be happy about for the guqin!). Not sure about the guzheng.
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Post by davidmdahl on Nov 11, 2004 19:00:58 GMT
I think that there is no lacquer on the soundboard of a guzheng. If someone does this it would degrade or ruin the sound. In my opinion, scratches and dents are an indication that it is a real instrument used by a real musician rather than a decoration. Sometimes the more beat-up the instrument the better it sounds. <g>
Best wishes,
David Dahl Portland, Oregon
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Post by Vi An on Nov 11, 2004 22:29:55 GMT
There is a great luthier of guitars out there I don't remember his name, but he basically said if you build an instrument like its about to fall apart it will be the best sounding!!
I notices many high end gu zheng's on the net where the top paulownia sound boards come in many darknesses, some as light as pine, to a rich golden tone, to brownish and finally to darkest brown.
My instruments don't have any varnish on the top paulownia pieces atleast not my dan tranh and Jin Yun gu zheng.
Best,
Vi An.
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Post by blueharp on Nov 12, 2004 5:19:45 GMT
Vi An, There is a way to lift out minor dents and dings in wood, but it isn't for the faint of heart. The tools needed are a soldering iron and a wet cloth. You cover just the dent with the wet cloth and press the hot tip of the soldering iron to the cloth. The steam created will swell the wood fibers and cause the dent to disappear. If you want to practice the technique just use a piece of pine 2 x 4. Dent it and have at it. BTW this won't work if the fibers are broken/cut or fill in missing wood that has been gouged out. Steve
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Post by Charlie Huang on Nov 12, 2004 21:11:29 GMT
Ahem, b-day threads should be posted in the General forum... just a note!
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Post by Vi An on Nov 13, 2004 7:16:26 GMT
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Post by YouLanFengChune on Nov 17, 2004 4:14:22 GMT
Hi ppl, My Name is Yinhao, and I am a teacher of Dizi and Xiao in Singapore.
Recently i just shipped 2 Guzhengs, "Dunhuang's High-End Rosewod, with Window Motif, inset with Ivory" and "DunHuang's Premium Aged Redwod, Inset with Bone Lining" to USA for a friend. These 2 already cost a bomb in Singapore. The total shipment fee worked out to be about 2400 USD.
My friend was so Happy! She paid without asking twice and told me that normal Zhengs cost about $2000 in USA already!!
Is it really that bad in the USA??
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Post by Vi An on Nov 17, 2004 4:29:18 GMT
Hello,
You mean those 2 gu zhengs + shipping = 2400USD? If so that isn't bad at all!!
I don't know of any "in USA" gu zheng sales besides Lark In the Morning but their products are just general use products and the average price for gu zheng is less than 1500USD. I only know of gu zheng sales in USA who bring in large orders of gu zhengs from either Taiwan or China and the prices are exceptional from what I have researched (between 1200-1500) for professional - concert grade models (without carvings or artworks) that is...
I'm exceptionally happy with my Jin Yun rose wood no decorations 26-stringed zheng.
My best,
Vi An.
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Post by twilight on Nov 17, 2004 4:30:11 GMT
well... it's hard to find one in the US of good quality (that's my own opinion). I guess that's why your friend is so happy ;D
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Post by davidmdahl on Nov 17, 2004 5:57:46 GMT
A friend who is a guzheng player in Seattle bought his instrument through his teacher and is very happy with it. I think he paid about $800. It looks a lot like the "Duo Cranes to the Sun" model on the cadenzamusic.biz site. Probably getting an instrument through a teacher is not a bad idea.
Best wishes,
David Dahl Portland, Oregon
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Post by Charlie Huang on Nov 17, 2004 10:34:53 GMT
I would assume that CCN has some good quality quzhengs, since Wang Fei plays guzheng also.
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Post by YouLanFengChune on Nov 17, 2004 14:34:02 GMT
Just one word of caution!
Personnaly there are 3 recommended Brands of Guzheng 1) Dunhuang (where all Zhengs first started being scientific) 2) Jinyun (well respected) 3) Henan Da Her Zheng (quality material, OK workmanship)
Yangzhou Guzheng, ZhongZhou Guzheng and all the rest, my friends have suffered enough with them, hence the caution!!!
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Peter Kahl
Novice
Guzheng instrument designer, winner of the Japanese Product of the Year 1999 and 2000 award
Posts: 11
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Post by Peter Kahl on Nov 19, 2004 14:24:22 GMT
The quality of most today's Guzhengs is very poor - it is rare to find one that would be as good as today's Kotos.
There are several issues that I find wrong with the modern Guzheng designs:
1.) Excessive decoration with a poor taste.
2.) The soundboard is not always Wu-tong (Paulownia) and not always aged properly. Some manufacturers use accelerated aging process by subjecting the wood to flame. This "seems" to work, but not really. It also darkens the wood on surface, but a small scratch can reveal the true age of the wood. Many Guzheng manufacturers try to mislead the customers about the true age of the wood, or don't say anything.
3.) Problems with bridges. This is a long story and I could write a book about it.
4.) The box for strings (on the right-hand side) is totally wrong design (I believe originally authored by Dunhuang). The Guzheng instrument is supposed to have only 1 sound producing cavity, not 2. The box creates additional cavity with it's own resonance - therefore tuning the whole instrument to have different sond than it would without the box. Keep in mind that the ancient Guzheng never had a box for the strings. Modern Koto doesn't either. Additionally, the box is often very poorly made and creates additional sound artifacts, such as rattle, etc.
Lunlun and I visited the Yayun Guzheng Ltd. in Yangzhou and Feitian Ltd. in Yangzhou in August 2004. You can find some photos about it on the websitye (www.gzuheng.idv.hk/en/news.php#yangzhou) and also talked in legth to Master Xu Zhen Gao and other people from the Shanghai factory that makes the Dunhuang brand.
Peter
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Post by YouLanFengChune on Nov 19, 2004 15:56:02 GMT
Hi Peter!
I discussed the problem with Zhou YanJia and Chen Anhua before, about the box and the designs.
I agree with your ideas about the box being a secondary cavity, but it is too small to create a resonance. the density of matrials would not have allowed it to resonate well enough to cause disturbance.
Secondly, if you keep the cover of the box open, it would not be a box anymore. The sound would be the same wheter you close the box or not. (thats my inference, might be wrong)
Anyway, i have seen people stuff the peg box with an entire guzheng blanket. Well, that would out do the box, right?
Actually, Chinese Zheng already have the ones with NO design. Dunhuang Company already holds one entire model without designs. Problem is, the Chinese market loves to have product differentiation, hence, well deesigned products sell better. And it shows of the artistry of the Chinese.
This year's Chinese Music Instrument Competition, Dunhuang Guzheng still did very well with their trusted models, not because of designs, but because of sounds and tone.
I performed Lin An Yi Hen as dizi accompanist with Wang Zhong Shan last Febuary. he was using Henan Da Her Zheng. Excellent materials, he told me, but construction was a bit rough.
Perhaps we could come up with an idea to solve all prblems at one go?
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Post by Vi An on Nov 19, 2004 16:55:55 GMT
Yes I agree we can all put our minds together and send each other ideas, drafts and drawings of ways to improve the modern zheng!
I noticed on the 30-stringed koto and their bass 17-stringed koto, that the tuning devices were on top of the playing side! This gives a longer cavity for sound resonance inside hense the enormous "boom" sound of the bass koto.. I would like to achieve this with my custom gu zheng.
I just realized it would have to be actually 31-stringed if I want the tuning to end with the note B for the bass and also b on the top register.
Thank you,
Vi An.
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Post by davidmdahl on Nov 19, 2004 20:31:47 GMT
Just one word of caution! <snip> Yangzhou Guzheng, ZhongZhou Guzheng and all the rest, my friends have suffered enough with them, hence the caution!!! I am a little confused by the warning about Yangzhou. According to Lunlun's website ( www.guzheng.idv.hk/en/news.php#gold_medal), Yangzhou has won awards for their instruments. Am I misunderstanding something? Best wishes, David Dahl
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Peter Kahl
Novice
Guzheng instrument designer, winner of the Japanese Product of the Year 1999 and 2000 award
Posts: 11
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Post by Peter Kahl on Nov 19, 2004 22:34:29 GMT
To understand how things work in China:
If you get an award at an exhibition, it doesn't necessarily mean that some wise men or Guzheng masters carefully examined and played your instrument.
The fact of the matter is that China still suffers from Communist-era thinking, and sometime even corruption.
Most of China doesn't have the thinking we have in USA or Europe - they just love to put chop on every piece of paper, and then some factory says: "Look, I have a certificate from the central government that my Guzheng is good!" You must trust the power of a chop (stamp)!!!!!!!!
Just like in any other case, do not trust everything you hear, read. Believe your eyes.
The article on Lunlun's website just mentions than Yayun got 5 gold medals (re-print from newspaper), but Lunlun didn't give them any endorsements yet.
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Post by fraucremer on Dec 5, 2004 16:36:34 GMT
Can anyone tell me something about a guzheng brand named "Scarlet Bird"? Where's the company located? What's their reputation? Do they make good guzhengs? Do their guzhengs have special problems someone should know about?
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