Buzzes and the Yue Shan

[blueharp]

Hi all,

A question for the collective wisdom:

Is it considered proper to put little wooden shims (like toothpicks) under the strings at the Yue Shan to alleviate buzzing?

I ask because I have 2 guqin that are fine with the hybrid strings but buzz like crazy on strings 1 and 2 with silk strings.

Getting an instrument solely for silk strings is sadly out of the question for the near future, but I really like the sound and want to use them.

Any thoughts?

Steve

[Charlie Huang]

Yes, you can stick toothpicks under the strings on the yue shan (Li Xiangting does it on his qin).

There are several ways to stop buzzing, depending on the circumstances. I've tried silk strings on my qin and they buzzed like crazy for the same strings as yours (even though my yue shan is considered a tad too high by Zeng Chengwei). The reason for their buzzing is because silk strings vibrate more than metal-nylon, plus the first four strings have outer wrapping which makes them buzz even more. The solution is get a qin made for silk strings, or tune them higher so they are more taught, thus won't vibrate as much. You really need to add more tension when you are stringing silk strings, they are as strong as metal ones (but don't over do it), and have similar tensions when tuned to F (though more likely to break if you attack to hard).

If there is buzzing when you use ordinary strings then either the strings are too slack (so tune them higher), their is irregularity on the surface of the qin, the nut at the end is too low, or the yue shan is too low, etc. You need to check which problems are the correct ones. If the their is irregularities on the qin surface, you need to re-polish / re-lacquer the offending places (best done by a qin maker); if the nut is too low (you often can see the strings almost touching the surface of the piece of wood that extends from the nut onto the surface) you either plane down the area where the strings touch the surface (not the lacquered bit, the bit attached to the nut) or get yourself a goose feather, strip off the fletching, cut the middle bit into a strip and place it on the nut when you restring, which will lift the strings enough to stop buzzing; if the yue shan is too low (your fingers hitting the surface of the qin when plucking) then you use the toothpick method, or get a carpenter to create a strip of wood that fits onto the yue shan to lift it slightly up (of course, the finger striking the surface of the qin when plucking is also another problem which stems from the fact that the surface from the fourth hui isn't sloping enough towards the yue shan).

Hope that helps. Any more questions?

When I met Zeng Chengwei at the summer school, his qins are really easy to play. Basically, his yue shan is quite low, yet you don't strike your fingers when plucking cos the slope from the second hui to the yue shan is enough. The strings are closer to the surface, but they do not buzz, the lacquer work is exceptional. When he played on my qin, he said the bridge was too high, so there was resistance and it was difficult to play. He suggested that if I find a plane, he would fix it for me! So I looked around for one, and because there was a luthier's workshop at the academy, I borrowed one of their planes. Zeng Chengwei said it was too small (what he really needed was a spoke shave which he said would have done the job in a matter of minutes). Since the workshop was closed at the time and I couldn't obtain one (plus, it was the last day the workshop opened before the summer school ended) he said that he'll try to fix it for me. It was rather hard work, coz the plane wasn't that sharp and it was small, so he could only shave a bit off at a time. It took us over half an hour to lower it to the desired height and even then it wasn't finished. When I got back home, I bought a plane and began to finish the bridge off. Firstly, I tidy up the part of the bridge by shaving the surface lacquer of the first four strings (he didn't touch them coz he said they were fine, but you can see the contrast of shaved and unshaved), then I started to lower the outer edge of the yue shan towards the chenglu. When he finished, the outer edge of the yue shan was too high so the strings did not touch the bridge. I had to lower the outer edge of the yue shan so there was no gap between the string and the yue shan. So far, I've managed to lower it enough so the string is touching the yue shan, but there is buzzing for strings five and six, so I need to do more work on that part before the strings connect with the yue shan fully and no more buzzing. I've put a piece of string underneath the strings and it works, the gap is that small. And it is easier to play when the strings are closer to the surface of the qin. I'll tell you more later when I finish it off.

[blueharp]

Thanks for the *very* detailed response!

The nut is fine, the problem lies with the yueshan. Apparently it needs to be slightly higher for silk strings.

Right now I am using the Huqiu strings tuned to the usual C-D-F-G-A-d-c. It was kind of tough to get them that high, but it is certainly possible. Just don't expect them to stay at that pitch for very long at first! Once they stretched out they settled down very well.

Oh, a tip about the fraying string issue. Apparently the Huqiu strings have plenty of glue holding them together so moisten your thumb and fingertip with water and gently smoothe the fibers back in place. It worked like a charm for me!

The Taiko<AKA Taigu> strings have that little cake of glue that comes with them. Remember you helped me with that?

My guqins are only of modest quality. I really liked their sound until I put them side by side with one made by Zeng Chengwei. I agree his guqins are extremely easy to play. Oh well, one day!

Have you fixed the yueshan on your guqin yet? Truth be told I would be a bit hesitant to plane it down myself! I applaud you bravery!

Steve

[Charlie Huang]

Well, I hardly gonna leave it half finished at this juncture! It'll look quite odd if I didn't tidy it up, the planing doesn't look noticable, much. Stephen Dydo brought a qin he had to the summer school and found that he actually planed the yue shan down too much that he had to fix a rather ugly looking piece of wood to it!
I'm gonna get some lacquer (a rather difficult and costly thing to obtain and import) and tsunoko powder (deer horn powder) to re-lacquer the yue shan once I've finished it to my satisfaction, and lacquer over a small niche on the path of string five 10.5 hui as well as other cracks and bits on the back of the qin that are not to do with natural aging.

My first steps to qin making, LOL!

Yes, your yue shan sounds rather too low. Toothpicks for now, but later get some carpenter friend to carve out a piece of wood that fits to the yue shan.