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Post by dsouthwood on Jan 8, 2007 19:33:44 GMT
Intonation (hitting the note exactly on the first try) has been a problem for me. I have no trouble at all when bending a note on my guzheng; I can hit it every time. But placing my finger on just the right spot on the erhu string is a different matter.
But I found a gadget that will help me practice. It's called the Center Pitch Universal Intonation Tool for Band and Orchestra (whew!). I bought it on line from First Quality Music in Louisville KY (www.fqms.com) for $25 plus $5.95 shipping. You may find it closer to you if you search.
It's an electronic tuner, but with a very fast response time and a display designed for intonation practice. It shows the name of the note you are playing along with from zero to three chevrons on either side that show how sharp or flat you are.
The device is designed to clamp onto any known band instrument, and it clamps onto my erhu above the qianjin so that it is at eye level and doesn't interfere with anything. It has no microphone; it reads the vibrations produced by the instrument through the clamp and ignores any other sounds in the room.
I was stuck for a while, but with this gadget plus the bowing exercise suggested by Carlos (thanks again), I'm making progress again.
Dennis
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Post by jetz320 on Jan 8, 2007 20:26:28 GMT
The erhu is a pitch instrument. It requires good pitch to be able to play it. That takes time to get use to. You can't just start playing and have all the right notes. Start off by memorizing the fingering distances. Overtime, you'll get it.
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Post by calden on Jan 8, 2007 20:39:57 GMT
I would also advocate jumping in and not be too worried about the exact pitch right away. As you develop bowing skills and muscle accuracy and strength - in both hands - your ear will be developing ,too, and pitch correction will start to happen, especially if you listen to good recordings.
Carlos
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Post by dsouthwood on Jan 9, 2007 4:20:16 GMT
Thanks for your comments. I do have a good ear (two of them, actually). As I said, when bending notes on my guzheng, I can stop on a cent. During the great folk music scare of the 1960s, I was in demand for tuning the guitars the other singers who couldn't hear the difference. But my ear(s) will still benefit from additional training.
As far as memorizing the fingering distances goes, you can only do that if you know you are hitting the notes right on. This device confirms that I am, in fact, memorizing the correct distances and not just practicing mistakes. Even if I am sure the note sounds correct, I like having a second opinion, and the tuner is much cheaper than having my teacher correct me while I practice. Positive feedback is the best way to learn.
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Post by maaltan on Jan 9, 2007 4:52:33 GMT
my ears are completely relative toned. I can tell if a scale is in tune but not if its any key. I find myself playing in G on the erhu and then when i do an open string i realize how far i was off. In fact the only reason i know its G key is because ap tuner told me. I read somewhere that it doesn't really matter what the erhu is tuned to just as long as the strings are a fifth apart(even this is up to interpratation) and that everybody in the ensemble is tuned together. but then theres these perfect tone people that ruin it for everybody. j/k. I've known a couple of perfect tone people that were real jerks but I assume there are some nice ones somewhere. more on topic. the ap tuner does about the same thing. I have extracted the microphone element from my computer mic and used it as a bridge before to tune. (waste of time really.. although it did make a great (?good?maybe) pickup for the erhu. A small piece of "craft foam" between the head and it was completely isolated. Without amp you couldnt hear the strings vibrate at all. Not to mention how hard it was to get those blasted wires soldered back on.)
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Post by dsouthwood on Jan 9, 2007 5:18:15 GMT
I remember reading a story about Sir Arthur Sullivan, of the Gilbert and Sullivan operetta team. When he was quite elderly, and nearly blind, he lived in a development with rows of identical houses. He unerringly entered his own house, ignoring all the look-alikes. When asked about it, he said that as he passed each house he tapped the bootscraper with his cane. The one that rang E flat was his house.
I can't tell what a note is by hearing it, but I can tell if two notes don't match. On many instruments I can hear the 'beats' when two strings are just a little out of phase. But I have no idea which one is on and which one is off.
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annk
Intermediate
Previously professional musician, now librarian ;-)
Posts: 38
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Post by annk on Jan 9, 2007 7:20:43 GMT
I studied violin for 12 years, and eventually ended up being a professional French horn player for 12 years. I mention this only to qualify what I'm about to say:
You say you have good ears, so I suggest that you just back up a bit. Practice from the very beginning - start with the first 2 in the D scale. Play VERY SLOWLY, up and down, until you are hitting them reliably. Let your ear tell you if they're correct or not. DO NOT go on until you are hitting them correctly all the time. Then, change them around - play D - F# - E - D, E - D - F# - D etc. Try all the possible combinations, SLOWLY, til you are hitting them every time. Then add the third finger.
Do not add anything new until everything is correct, and if you find yourself slipping, go back a step.
This is, needless to say, very boring and frustrating, especially if you feel you're already beyond this. But I know from experience, both as a musician and as a teacher, that it is absolutely vital to nip problems in the bud, and start slowly enough to build a solid technique.
The gadget you bought sounds like fun, and I don't mean to say you shouldn't use it at all, but in the end it's both the ears and the fingers that need to be trained. It is completely possible to do this on your own.
If you don't feel you can hear the notes correctly and that you therefore need the gadget, I'd suggest recording yourself. Stop often and listen, then repeat, record, until you get it right.
I promise you, this will pay off!
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Post by dsouthwood on Jan 9, 2007 13:41:43 GMT
That is excellent advice. It's true that I have been trying to do it all at once, and I can see the benefit of taking it back to basics. Thanks for the tip.
Dennis
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Post by YouLanFengChune on Mar 31, 2007 15:49:44 GMT
The electronic tuner is good but it limits what you can do. You will be so accustomed to the equal-tempered tuning that you might be less receptive to the more melodically-pleasing Pythagorean tuning (where the 3s and the 7s are slightly higher than in the equal-tempered system). The Pythagorean tuning is wonderful for full expression of tonality, because it makes the distinction between, say, #5 and b6 (because #5 would be higher and leaning towards 6 more). Google Pythagorean intonation to find out more.
I'm a total fan of Pythagorean intonation!!!!!!!!!!!!!
A final note would be that, as pleasing as the Pythagorean intonation might sound within a melody, I honestly don't suggest you use it when you gotta harmonise with other notes. A Pythagorean 3 sounds horrible together with the 1. They kinda clash.
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