beginner at erhu

[shadow]

Hi 1st of all thank the heavens for this site, ive been looking for soo long on the internet to answer my questions

ive wanted to play the erhu ever since i heard a young girl play one at a festival and my loving girlfriend bought me one for xmas but i have no idea how to play.It took me ages simply to string the thing, the problem is i dont know how to tune the erhu , i know that the lower string is D and higher A but i dont really know what that means , ive played banjo and guitar for a while but only buy tab and ear, can anyone give my an audio clip of the 2 strings played open ?

also when i use the bow i get a screeching sound( which i think is due to too much rosin on the bow )and when i use my fingers on the strings i get a faint dull note as if someone had there hand over a guitar while trying to play , any advice for a new start would be greatly appreciated.

Sorry for all the stupid questions, i just really want to begin playing this beautiful instrument, thanks :)

[maaltan]

Welcome, i asked alot of the same questions in the (in)famous thread i started (stickied).

Fingering charts are useful and are also stickied in this forum.

Here is my erhu/ music bookmark folder. They were useful for me (at least at one time they were).

www.dolmetsch.com/musicalsymbols.htm
Western music symbols, most are identical in jianpu

www.omnisterra.com/scgi-bin/view.pl/Main/ChineseViolin
A general erhu overview page

carlos-alden.magix.net/
Carlos's page. it was being stubborn i think it has some good pictures of his erhu and how one looks properly setup.
'
www.jiebingchen.com/erhu/technique.shtml
Good starting video. In fact this will help you with your initial problem. I would watch it frame by frame.

homepage.mac.com/ggao/erhu/images/thumbs/fullsize/bridge.JPG
a good picture of a wooden bridge. bridges come in so many shapes and colors (woods) that experimentation is encouraged.

www.mandarintools.com/
a chinese translation suite.

www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?cdqrads=120
another tranlation site.

translate.google.com/translate_t
dont forget google. it does phrase tranlations better but it gets confused real easy.

www.chineseculture.net/guqin/instruments/erhucds.htm
where i ordered my "textbook" (303021t i think)

mp3.baidu.com/m?f=ms&tn=baidump3&ct=134217728&lf=&rn=&word=%BE%A9%BA%FA&lm=0
music.yahoo.com.cn/search.html?pid=ysearch&p=%CC%EF%D4%B0%B4%BA%C9%AB&mimetype=all&source=ysearch_music_result_topsearch
a couple of chinese music download sites. useful for finding played version of the songs.

Thats about it. I reccomend watching that video closely and do what she says. focus on a steady and LOUD tone. i wouldnt even worry about getting your left hand in the right position yet. Until you can make your erhu sound at max volume with consitant tone, dont bother trying anything else.

Yes, your hand will ache for a while. If it doesn't your doing it wrong. it takes lots of pressure to make the sound. from what you mentioned i think this might be your primary problem.

A side note about the video. She demonstrates what it sounds like with too little and too much pressure. try to imitate those sounds also so you know what "not" to do. i find it EXTREMELY hard to make the too much pressure "dying cat in the meat grinder" sound. also make sure you stop the notes fully with your left hand (when you get that far). The pressure needed is not as much as a guitar, but its not just a faint touch.

You also may want to go ahead and order some extra strings. Plan on breaking a few until you get used to the pressures.

cadenzamusic.biz has a great price on them(5 sets for around $11 i think). Shipping to eastern US takes about 2 weeks so make sure you order far enough ahead of time otherwise you may find your self playing with dental floss (dont ask) .

ahh yes TUNING. First off dont worry about tuning until you can make a steady tone. plucking the strings is basically useless.
There is a nice little program called AP tuner that i use. you will be tuning to D4 and A4. 4th octave. one octave right of middle C on a piano (i think). at first just get it somewhere in the 4th octave and get the outer string where it doesnt resonate until you practice on basic bowing.

The bridge is held on by the pressure of the strings (like a banjo). oh and dont forget/remove the felt. It might look like packing material or something but its an integral part of the instrument. If your erhu came with foam consider finding a scrap piece of felt or denim. It seems to produce a better tone.

did i miss anything?

[calden]

shadow:

Nice meeting you. Be prepared for a deluge of information and advice. Maaltan said it all. Especially watch the Jiebing Chen video. It's very clear on hand position and getting a good tone. By the way, my page on magix.net was not merely being stubborn - I think I removed the pictures some time ago. They were interesting but not crucial to learning erhu, so you're not missing anything.

The most important advice you'll get is to find a teacher. Even if you have to travel a bit, a good intro lesson will show you more information than a month of forum posts here. Strive to make this happen, and you will be enjoying playing this instrument MUCH faster, no joke.

If you can tune your banjo and guitar you can tune your erhu. Tune the low (thicker) string to your D string - 4th string - on your guitar, and tune the high erhu string to the second fret on the guitar G string - 3rd string. As for your left hand fingering, it's very much like good guitar technique - you really need to have your finger coming down to the string so your fingertip is almost perpendicular to the string.

Here is a website I threw together talking about left hand position:

eaglelake1.org/erhu.html

Really check out the photo of the Shanghai players in the park, and what they're doing with their left hand.

Carlos

[davidmdahl]

You already have some excellent advice from Carlos and Maaltan. I would especially like to second the advice to find a teacher.

The low (inside) string is tuned to the first D above middle C on a piano, and the high (outside) string is tuned to the A just a fifth above the low string.

I agree with Maaltan that the bow pressure can be somewhat strong, but be careful with the pain business. It is normal for muscles to be a little sore when used in unfamiliar ways, but it is also possible to injure them if you are overdoing it. A teacher can really help to make sure your holding position and posture are correct so as to make it easiest to play the erhu and avoid hurting yourself. If this is not possible, be very observant of photos and videos.

The erhu must be set up properly before it is playable. If you like, post some photos of your erhu, particularly of the front so we can see the snake skin, and also the area from the pegs to the qianjin (string tied around the neck and strings).

The bow needs the proper amount of rosin worked into the hair, and needs to be at the right tension. These things are difficult to describe in a post, but Carlos has some good writeups in other threads. Look through the posts in this section (erhu), and I am sure that you will find some useful information.

Good Luck and Best Wishes,

David

[davidmdahl]

shadow said:

also when i use the bow i get a screeching sound

Providing the erhu and bow are correctly set up, the screech should go away if you do one of two things: bow faster or lessen the pressure of the bow hair against the string. If you want to play loud, you need more pressure and faster bowing, When you want to play softly, you can use less pressure and slower bowing. When you want to play long loud notes, play with vibrato. For now, don't try to play with vibrato. That should be attempted after you can control the bow and make a good sound.

Best wishes,

David

[song]

Hi Shadow,

Welcome to the forum. I've been playing the erhu for 15 years now and can say my playing is above average. But the other day I tried to play the erhu with my left hand and guess what - I sounded like just any other beginner.

My point is, knowing the theories and physics behind the strokes and fingerings is one thing, telling your hand to do it is another thing. So for whatever instructions you read, see or hear, you have to practise for hours and hours before you even come close.

So don't give up if after a while you still sound like a cat in a blender. Come in here once in a while and we'll give you a pep talk.

Thanks,
Sung Wah

[shadow]

hey guys thanks for all the replies, i think i have tuned and stringed my erhu right, i have pics just to confirm this , although its a webcam so not great quality. ive checked out that video on poster and tone and when i dont use my left hand i can usually get a nice constant tone but as soon as use my fingers it starts to screech on some parts and give a dull note on others. do you have to know music notation to play or is there a tab equivelant for erhu ; if know can anyone give me a good site to learn how to read music notation for erhu, thanks for all the advice

ok i cant seem to show the pics can soemone tell me how ? thanks

[davidmdahl]

Tunes for erhu and other Chinese instruments is usually written in the numeric notation 'jianpu'. There is an excellent writeup on jianpu on www.wikipedia.com.

I suggest reading through the other threads in the erhu section of this forum. Quit a bit of good and helpful advice has already been written, and it is fun to read through.

Best wishes,

David

[calden]

Shadow:

The jianpu music notation is sort of like tab. It's at least as easy to figure out - you just have to make the mind switch to looking at the numbers as the scale tones rather than finger positions, but it's still far easier and simpler than regular musical notation.

Learn to read jianpu and worlds of erhu tunes will be made available to you. Tons of instructional information will be at your doorstep. Your future children will all be healthy, and lottery tickets will literally fly into your wallet. Well, maybe it's not that beneficial, but it will help a lot.

Carlos

[shadow]

lol thanks alot guys , i wish i did get lucky like that calden. still dont know what im doing rong with my fingers though, i just get either a screeching or dull notes, any ideas what im doing wrong ? oh and il also show you guys the erhu if someone can explain how i can post the pics, thanks

[davidmdahl]

As I recall, for inserting an image in a post, the image file must exist on a website somewhere accessible by anyone. In the text of your post, put the URL to the image file between IMG and /IMG in square brackets as follows (without the x's):

[IMGx]your url here[/IMGx]

The URL must be the full path, from the http:// to the image file name. As I recall, there should not be any spaces.

Best wishes,

David

[calden]

Another way to insert an image is to hit the "reply" button to a post, NOT the quick reply at the bottom of the thread, but the reply button at the end of the post. You then get a whole menu of things at the top of the posting area - "Add tags" and "Add smilies."

In the "add tags" set of clickable options, second row, fourth from the left, is a button with what looks like a picture on it. Click that, and you'll see the sets of

(img][/img) that David referred to (but with square brackets. If I use the real ones they don't show up in the post.)


You then insert your url address, full address as David pointed out, in between the two inner middle brackets, with no spaces between the brackets and the url.
Carlos

[shadow]

OK well Ive tried to give the pics but it just ain't going to work for me so instead IL give u a link to where i put the pics on a site , i used my web cam so there not great but just to give you an idea, thanks , still unsure of the screeching noise I'm getting when playing with my fingers

pictures

www1.snapfish.com/slideshow/AlbumID=143182039/PictureID=2672531100/a=85264984_85264984/t_=85264984

[Charlie Huang]

It won't work because the host won't allow hotlinking (hence no .jpg tag at the end of the link).

[davidmdahl]

I can't see much of any detail in the photo. Don't try to get the whole erhu in the photo. I would like to see a close-up of the snake-skin and another of the pegs down to the qianjin (string wrap around the neck).

Snapfish is not ideal for sharing photos on the forum as you have found. If you don't have your own website space, www.photobucket.com is an option.

Thanks.

Best wishes,

David

[shadow]

ok finally got it working ,thnx for the help , ok please tell me if ive done any thing wrong

thanks for any advice u guys can give me

[davidmdahl]

Ah ha! I see a few problems that will make a big difference. You have two bridges set up, one for each string. You only need one bridge. You should see two small grooves in the top of the bridge where the strings lay across.

Also very important is a small pad of felt, fabric, or foam that is installed under the strings below the bridge.

Take a look at the following photo from the Cadenza Music website:



The pad below the strings can be adjusted to taste. For a mellower sound, the pad should be close to the bridge.

Best wishes,

David

[davidmdahl]

I notice from the photos that the bow appears to have black hair. White hair is much more suitable for erhu. A good quality white hair bow is only about $20 and will make playing the erhu much easier. The erhu is difficult enough as it is that every bit we can do to cut down on the challenges is worth considering.

For rosin, make sure you are using a good quality violin rosin. Some erhus are packaged with cello rosin, which is not suitable.

The biggest difference you will see in the sound will come from setting up the erhu correctly with the bridge and pad. Fine-tuning can come after that.

Best wishes,

David

[shadow]

THANK YOU !!! soooo much David ,i can actually play my erhu now , just set it up properly although can't have a good session playing her as the wifey is sleeping but i briefly tried to play using my fingers and it sounds ALOT better, thanks everyone for helping me out, sorry for the stupid questions. Also as i was restringing i noticed that the python skin was starting to take the strain of the strings and is startings to stretch in towards the chamber, its only a little but is this supposed to happen or should i do something ? , also could anyone give me a nice easy little tune to begin playing ? i play by ear usually as music notation goes right through my head, thanks for giving me the charts maaltan but i dont really understand how to make sense of it. could u perhaps explain what it all means in a little detail, again sorry for all the stupid questions its just now i can play something on the erhu im very eager to start learning songs. thanks soo much guys for all this help

[davidmdahl]

For tunes, if you don't read notation yet, play what you know. My first tune on the erhu was "Twinkle, twinkle little star" in the key of D, which means you will start on the open (no fingers) low string.

Don't be intimidated by the notation for Chinese music. It is relatively simple and well worth learning.

The conventional practice for protecting the snake skin is to put a pencil under the strings just above the bridge when the erhu is not in use. I took a pencil, cut it to the width of the erhu, and wrapped the ends and the middle with thick half-inch packing tape. The tape adds to the lift against the strings and provides a soft contact to the snake skin.

Best wishes,

David

[damien]

Hi Shadow, You have the same Erhu as me, it is a beginner Erhu but you can mess around and tweak it to sound nice. Im not sure if that's the same bridges you got with it (white wood) But i would get rid of them as they are cut so badly, but you might of got a good pair, if they are bad you could buy some ebony bridges, it sounded so much better when i did, and maybe buy other bridges to see which wood sounds best. Also David is 100% right about the bow, it's good for nothing and you will find yourself applying rosin every day. When i got my white hair bow it only needs rosin once every few weeks depending on how much you play it and the hair was much thicker, felt heavier which makes it more sturdy.

David, every Erhu player i have met played twinkle twinkle little star as there first tune.
I think mine was Ode to Joy, then twinkle star after that. Im one of these people that wants to get stuck in and play the harder stuff but it does not really work out that way.

[shadow]

wooot 1st song twinkle twinkle its a little rough but im getting the hang of where my fingers are supposed to go , can u think of any easy orienta song to play as the wifey and my nieghbors are probably laughing there a** of at me trying to play twinkle twinkle lol , also david im keen on learning the notation for chinese music but i just dont know where to begin , could you point me in the right direction ?

also thanks for the advice damien, im going to have a look at some better rosin and bows soon but for now the one i have will have to do

thanks again

[davidmdahl]

The most accessible resource for learning the jianpu notation for Chinese tunes is www.wikipedia.com. Just search on jianpu and you will find out what you need to know. In actual jianpu scores you will see some instrument specific markings, but the basics are not hard.

There are some erhu tunes in jianpu on the Cadenza website (www.cadenzamusic.biz), but I don't remember any of them being particular easy. I will keep an eye out for other web sources. Your best bet is probably an intro book. There are several stores in San Francisco including Clarion Music (wwww.clarionmusic.com) that stock such books. CCN (www.chineseculture.net) is another source.

Best wishes,

David

[shadow]

thanks again david ive been just improvising and making up some nice oriental pieces, im getting really good with vibrato and sliding, and my D string sounds great but the higher one still seems hard to get a nice sound from , any ideas whats wrong ?

[maaltan]

Tian Yuan Chun Se (countryside scenery?) is a classic beginner's piece (and the only song so far i can play reasonably welll from beginning to end). Its got a definate oriental tune to it.

Here is the book of sheet music I have.

www.chineseculture.net/guqin/instruments/erhucds.htm
303021t Graded examination pieces for the Chinese erhu( in no. notation)
100 pieces by different grades,309 pages

I think its the exam book used for erhu classes. It is broken up into 10 grades (Erquan Yingyue is grade 10, sai ma is grade 4, tian yuan chun se is grade one of course.)

It starts with a pretty grueling exercise in D and G that involves jumping from string to string and doing other nasty wrist straining activities. After i got through that i though i was going to quit learning but i started tian yuan chun se and saw immediate benifits for getting through it.

The only problem is that it is rife with typo's (zhi zhu diao degrades into random notes toward end) and its completely in chinese and jianpu. Its not a big of a deal as you would think. The chinese is minimal and can be translated with google and a charatacter writer software of some sort(windows IME pad...if you can get it to install. mac has a preinstalled option that is supposed to work great). You are going to be learning jianpu if your going to play chinese music anyway.