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Post by popopo on May 31, 2006 1:05:43 GMT
I bought a dunhuang Erhu from cadenza and it is way too loud and hurts my ears. I dont think your ears should hurt on any instrument, no? This isnt normal right? Are the more expensive erhus that much lower in volume as not to hurt ears? Could this be a rosin problem, there is rosin on the bow but maybe not enough? I tried using ear plugs but it seemed rediculous and unnatural. I tried minor adjustments with the damper cloth but i am pretty sure i cant tune it down without doing major adjustments like cloth over the box and such. I really enjoy playing but i just cant continue with my ears being hurt. Great forum, great advice. thanks a lot
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Post by davidmdahl on May 31, 2006 8:13:18 GMT
If you think an erhu is loud, just try a gaohu. ;D Actually a cheap erhu might not have much volume while a good erhu should sound good while having the capacity of playing both loud and soft. If you play in a small reverberant room, any instrument may seem loud. If you bow with a lot of pressure, you will play loud. You can change the character of the erhu a little by fiddling with different bridges, and of course the pad beneath the bridge can be adjusted to suit.
Personally, I would prefer a sweeter voiced erhu to a loud one, but not everyone might feel this way, especially if they play in a large ensemble where a small voice will be covered up.
It is a good idea to protect your ears by not subjecting them to loud noises. If this happens in practice or rehearsal, check with an audiologist about musician's earplugs. The trouble with ordinary earplugs is that the frequencies are dampened unevenly. Earplugs for musicians are designed to reduce the sound pressure on the ears by so many decibels evenly across the frequencies.
Best wishes,
David
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Post by popopo on May 31, 2006 17:27:29 GMT
Yeah those musicians earplugs sound like they would work. But at the same time it doesnt seem right to be wearing earplugs whenever i play. Im sure that i would probebly get used to the noise after a while but im not going to worsen my hearing for it. Is there anyone out there that always wears earplugs when they play? Id feal better about it if i knew that it was common place. Thanks a lot for the reply ;D
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Post by davidmdahl on May 31, 2006 20:58:26 GMT
I don't think that it is common for an erhu player to use ear plugs. I don't, but maybe my hearing is already shot. I still wonder about your room. Try playing outside or in a larger dead room and see if it still bothers you.
Best wishes,
David
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Post by calden on May 31, 2006 21:25:02 GMT
Another thing to consider is if you have any allergies or sinus conditions. If there is any excess pressure in your inner ear certain notes will resonate and cause pain. About once a year I get impacted ear wax and certain guitar notes seem to be louder than others - it's just resonating with impacted parts of my ear.
Carlos
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Post by notmadeinzhongguo on Jun 1, 2006 14:10:02 GMT
I have very good hearing and my erhu doesn't hurt my ears... well not anymore. When I first started (a few weeks ago  ) I didn't have mine tuned and I would play the notes too high and it sounded really bad and I whenever I bow to hard on the untuned erhu it sounds like nails on a chalkboard and does hurt my ears. Perhaps tuning is the problem? |
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Post by maaltan on Jun 3, 2006 3:34:08 GMT
I find mine at full volume hurts my ears, i already know i am sensitive to certian frequencies of sounds. Any loud sounds can literally stun me. Never got around to seeing if there is a medical explanation. I practice 90% of the time with mine muted with a stick/pencil/dowel etc. instead of the bridge. i have carved a dowel down to where i get the near same tonality but at 25% the volume. IN fact i think it sounds better this way, although we have already established on here that mine had an uneven tensioned head. Also, one's ears tend to adjust to ambient volume. Have you ever noticed that if you watch tv in the morning right when you wake up (assuming your house gets as quiet as mine at night) you use much less volume? A similar affect to walking into a bright room from a dark one. Something you can try is to just "tough it out" while playing the scales or whatever song you know at full volume for about 10 minutes. After that time, your ears should adjust and it is more comfortable. If that doesn't help, try a white noise generator. IE a semi-loud, fan, AC, static on radio, etc. I find that helps my "condition" quite a bit. of course, i am not a doctor, I just play one in my head.  |
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Post by bihubob on Jun 9, 2006 15:17:26 GMT
I'm curious, any idea what kind of wood your erhu is? Supposedly the redwoods/ rosewoods are brighter and louder than the darker woods. I just got a brighter wood erhu and it is pretty loud, but beautifully voiced.
Also, I got a little clip that can be mounted onto the holes in the bridge to mute it for practice. I live in an apartment in Taipei and I don't want to upset my neighbors. Not sure where you could buy such a clip other than a specialty store, but any clip that stabilizes the bridge would work.
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Post by sanmenxia on Jun 9, 2006 18:50:33 GMT
"try a white noise generator. IE a semi-loud, fan, AC, static on radio"
thanks that seems like a good idea,
you can also try playing with the TV on quite loud, or when someone's vaccum cleaning the carpet...
also try sticking some blu-tack (kind of rubbery putty for stick posters to walls) onto the bridge, a big lump will reduce the volume and if your erhu is too harsh or trebly a small one will help to smooth it out.
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Post by davidmdahl on Jun 9, 2006 21:11:28 GMT
If you damage your hearing with persistent loud noises the problem will be solved another way. Instead of attempting to mask a loud noise with other loud noises, it makes better sense to solve the problem closer to the source. If playing your erhu is truly hurting your ears, and playing more quietly is not an option, then find a way to protect your ears. It really is a drag to damage your ears and suffer hearing loss and tinnitus. I know this from experience.
If your ears hurt or ring after practicing, or any other activity involving sounds, your hearing is at risk. Loud music and sounds are common and popular at concerts, movies, church services, and car stereos. I truly fear that a generation or so will find out about permanent hearing loss the hard way.
Best wishes,
David
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Post by maaltan on Jun 10, 2006 0:27:39 GMT
"try a white noise generator. IE a semi-loud, fan, AC, static on radio" thanks that seems like a good idea, you can also try playing with the TV on quite loud, or when someone's vaccum cleaning the carpet... sorry, i was thinking of quieter than that. a little white noise from a deskfan or box fan is enough to make the ears adjust. its made of spikes of several frequencies and amplitues (definition of white noise). it tricks the ear more than drowns out other sounds. Its a treatment for tinnitus. the white noise takes the place and is more pleasant than the ringing. It has been suggested Tinnitus has caused by "open circuts" in the nerve clusters causing similar noise problems that you get if you have an cable pluged into line in with nothing on the other end with AV work. (hums pops whistles etc) These open circuits are either caused by trauma (loud noises), chemical imbalances (side effect of asprin for example), or normal operations. 98% of people stuck in a sound proofed room will start to hear "something" after about 15-20 min. The brain expects constant input and without, it makes the sounds up. same in darkness. they experimented with this in the 70's with the sensory deprivation tanks. turning the tv up to drown out other things does cause hearing loss. so does turning up earphone music... the focus of a ipod lawsuit right now. |
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Post by YouLanFengChune on Jun 10, 2006 2:11:56 GMT
A good erhu's lodest dynamics is only 85dB , pretty loud.
Beginner's erhu tend to be loud, as it's primary objective is to be an orchestra erhu. If you compare strings section of a symphonic orchestra to the huqin section, you'll realise that the sound is much weaker. Hence erhu makers around the world are trying to raise the dynmaics and the brightness.
The answer may be in america itself. Erhu using american /amazonian snakes. I'll keep u guys posted.
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Post by Charlie Huang on Jun 10, 2006 8:52:35 GMT
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Post by sanmenxia on Jun 10, 2006 13:30:48 GMT
It seems like however loud I try to play, my ear never hurt. I think if your ears hurt, something's definitely not right, or something's wrong with my ears... I would agree with the idea of using earplugs, and/or some sort of mute. I would also say don't try to play more softly because you need to bow strongly and hard to produce a good tone, you really have to "dig" in otherwise you will sound weak and feeble. A good erhu's lodest dynamics is only 85dB , pretty loud. Beginner's erhu tend to be loud, as it's primary objective is to be an orchestra erhu. If you compare strings section of a symphonic orchestra to the huqin section, you'll realise that the sound is much weaker. Hence erhu makers around the world are trying to raise the dynmaics and the brightness. I'm suprised erhu makers would actually want to make erhus have a brighter sound. I don't know about other people but I prefer a full, clear, "thick", strong sound without being muffled or dull. Are they trying to copy the sound of a violin? |
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Post by YouLanFengChune on Jun 10, 2006 13:51:31 GMT
Hi!
Erhu is afterall a treble intrument. It main function in an orchestra is still that of a section, responsible for more than half the melody.
The notion that erhu is to sound deep and thick, orchestrally, as discussed in forums all over china, in my opinion, a very outdated one. One must explore the technicality and the virtousity of the instrument to make it a more feasinle instrument in the mordern music making context.
If erhu playing were to remain in the 1950s, we will still be playing things with only 2 hand positions. That will result in the eventual demise of the instrument due to lack of improvement in repertoire and performers abaility.
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Post by song on Jun 10, 2006 14:22:48 GMT
Interesting stuff. I can't hear anything from 15k onwards... |
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Post by sanmenxia on Jun 10, 2006 15:22:17 GMT
Hi! Erhu is afterall a treble intrument. It main function in an orchestra is still that of a section, responsible for more than half the melody. The notion that erhu is to sound deep and thick, orchestrally, as discussed in forums all over china, in my opinion, a very outdated one. One must explore the technicality and the virtousity of the instrument to make it a more feasinle instrument in the mordern music making context. If erhu playing were to remain in the 1950s, we will still be playing things with only 2 hand positions. That will result in the eventual demise of the instrument due to lack of improvement in repertoire and performers abaility. Hi! mmm...interesting comments. It's getting a bit off topic... Perhaps the type of sound needed for large orchestras (group of many erhu playing the same line), compared with solo/small ensemble playing is different. When I say I prefer a "thicker" sound I don't mean it should be in any way "muddy", unclear, muffled or dull. In my opinion, the erhu should not be seen as a Chinese "violin" that needs to "catch up" with violin music and techniques, it should exist within it's own tradition and idioms, even though some modern playing techniques have borrowed from violin playing techniques. Already by the the 1920s and 1930s Liu Tianhua's pieces had extended erhu playing to two octaves above the open strings. |
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Post by maaltan on Jun 11, 2006 3:30:09 GMT
Interesting stuff. I can't hear anything from 15k onwards... other things you have to look out for is harmonics. "hearing" a frequency can me misleading. when a speaker emits say a 30khz tone at 40db, it also emits tones at 15khz , 7.5khz ,etc at various percentages of the 40db depending on the quality of speakers. Same as an erhu string (to bring this post a bit more on topic  ) when you say you heard a ringing at 20 and 21khz it might be a harmoic being setup in the speakers or computer case. also, Just because you cant hear a tone doesn't mean it cant hurt your ears either. |
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Post by YouLanFengChune on Jun 11, 2006 3:54:29 GMT
I beg to differ.
Even in the 1950s, most of erhu pieces, other than Liu Tian Hua's (His was the "bad boy gang") were very folksy tunes....
Liu's "Sunshine over Taxgoran", adapted from the violin piece, is now considered a piece for central conservatory diploma, with tunes and tones suitable for erhus...
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) I didn't have mine tuned and I would play the notes too high and it sounded really bad and I whenever I bow to hard on the untuned erhu it sounds like nails on a chalkboard and does hurt my ears. Perhaps tuning is the problem?
)