buying an erhu

[cgsimp]

Hi! I'm new to the world of Chinese music, and I am very interested in learning how to play the erhu. I taught myself how to play the guitar well in about 2 months, and I have years of experience with music theory, so learning shouldn't be an issue. I just can't find where to buy an erhu! I discovered this one site I can order them from, but I'm not keen on buying instruments I havn't tried first.

www.chineseculture.net/guqin/instruments/erhuist.html#erhu

I'm looking at eh0301 and eh0302, but I have minimal knowledge of erhu so I can't tell if they are quality or not. I also notice that they are southern (6 sides) is there any difference in sound between southern and northern erhus? Can anyone tell if they might be a good deal at 169$ and 289$?

Thank you

[paulv]

Hi cgsimp,

Welcome to the forum and to Chinese music. In addition to Chinese Culture Net you can check out www.cadenzamusic.biz/ who also has a good assortment of erhus. It is difficult to judge the quality of an erhu by just looking at a picture.

Hopefully, David (one of the forum's moderators) will chime in here as he bought both an erhu and zhonghu from Cadenza, and as far as I know, is quite happy with both instruments. Another member (Carlos) has also purchased, I believe, erhus online.

For my 2 cents worth, I guess it depends on what you want to do. If you're very serious about learning erhu, then you may want to buy a better quality instrument that will last. Also, the better quality erhus sound better also. The erhu has many variables that are part of the sound: high quality strings, wood type/construction, snake skin quality, bridge quality, to mention a few. Being an acoustic instrument, sound quality can vary even from the same maker and the same model. Getting a good sound out of an erhu while learning is the same for any bowed instrument

There is a sound difference between the 6 vs 8 sided erhus. The 6 sided tend to sound brighter -- it's all about harmonics. My teacher has several erhus, both 6 & 8 sided.

Good luck,

Regards,
Paul...

[davidmdahl]

Welcome cgsimp! I hope we can help.

The advice from Paul is good. I have not ordered from CCN, so I cannot pass any judgement on the quality of their erhus. When I was considering who to order from, I was not comfortable with their no-return policy, nor with the sketchy email responses I received.

Between myself and my teacher, we have ordered five instruments and several shipments of supplies from Cadenza Music of Singapore. In all cases the quality has been excellent to outstanding. Several of my teacher's students purchased erhus in China over the past year during trips. None of those instruments proved to be as good as the ones we bought from Cadenza, even though some were more expensive.

At a price range of under $300, the erhu's you are considering are probably entry level. There is no guarantee that you will get a terrific instrument if you spend a lot more, but you will need to spend more to get more than a beginner's instrument. This level (under $300) may be fine depending on what you want. My philosophy of buying instruments is to get the best one I can afford.

If you check the board for my posts, you will see that I consistently recommend finding a teacher. An erhu is a very difficult instrument to learn solo, and there are few study materials in English. Minor misadjustments on your erhu can make it almost impossible to play. Even one or two lessons with a good teacher will save you a lot of time and trouble. Of course, that is true even on guitar. <g>

Best wishes,

David

[cgsimp]

Thanks for the help! I've decided to order from cadenza based on what you told me. Unfortunately, I don't have a teacher near where I live, or I at least don't have knowledge of one, but I am very dedicated to getting basics down before I try anything crazy. I have a few videos I downloaded that instruct you on how to hold, finger, and bow the erhu, so I can learn from them, and if I have any questions, I'll ask them here.

btw if you have any low bandwith links to vidoes that might help me play the erhu, I'd be very gracious. I've already seen a few from previous threads.

Thanks- Geran

[davidbadagnani]

There are some Chinese musicians (probably including erhu plahyers) in the Washington, D.C. area; I'm not sure how close that is to you.

[cgsimp]

It's pretty close, about a 45 minute drive. I'm definately willing to take the time to go to D.C. sometime. I was looking at the 173$ erhu on cadenza (it's all I can really afford to spend now) and I noticed it has "bronze tuning pegs" I looked at the pics and the pegs look very odd. I was just wondering if you tune them a little different than normal? Is it really better to have the bronze pegs at all?

Sorry for asking all these questions but I'm new and I have a lot of them

[Si]

300 for an entry level er hu. are you sure? i think i paid about 100 for a good quality entry level. and i could have paid alot less too...

[YouLanFengChune]

Hi!

Living in Shanghai certainly has its advantages.
For a really entry level erhu, Cdenza now has 1 quality under $150, nice and loud, but not that bautiful tone. We use surplus skin for these on whitewood, and we wholesale it to malaysia and india....

[calden]

Greetings Geran:

I'm also in agreement with David's statement about spending money on musical instruments. I play semi-professionally (Irish music) and when I have bought an instrument for professional use I have spent up to $3500. It's always worth it.

HOWEVER, having said that, I must say that I did buy a beginner level erhu several years ago on eBay - ostensibly for my son to learn (his interest lasted a few weeks) but now use it as an "introductory" loaner instrument with students who take a few lessons and are thinking of taking up the erhu. It's not bad! Certainly the tone could be like my own, but it's set up fine and is perfectly playable.

My opinion is that buying the cheaper erhu from Cadenza is a safe bet. It's not much money - so if you do really pursue this, in six months or a year you can buy something much better. Then you've got a spare for when you start teaching, or want to sit down with someone and show them what you do. THEN they'll buy one and you can do duets! Cadenza will set it up well for you - good bridge, right string height from the neck, etc.

I also fully and totally agree with finding a teacher. Although not difficult to play, it's a tricky instrument to start on by one's self. There are things that you just simply can't know how to do from watching videos and reading books, but if a qualified teacher shows you they become immediately apparent. DEFINITELY find someone and take the time to go in for a few lessons. Go see some art while you're in DC as well. (I use to live in NYC and truly miss the plethora of culture on the East Coast.) I would kill for an ehru teacher only 45 minutes away - I have to drive to Seattle 4.5 hours away to get erhu instruction, and have done so.

Welcome to the forum, looking forward to hearing how the progress goes.

Carlos

[davidmdahl]

syburn said:

300 for an entry level er hu. are you sure? i think i paid about 100 for a good quality entry level. and i could have paid alot less too...

Well, it may depend on opinions on what counts as good quality. <g> The cost and quality of Chinese instruments depends a lot on where you are. You lucky folks who live in China may have many local places to shop for quality and good price. Most of us in the USA cannot buy an erhu from a local music store, let alone choose the best from a bunch. We usually have to order by mail or the Internet and count on the judgement of whoever fills the order. That process adds to the cost.

I saw erhus in San Francisco for several hundred dollars that were not even attractive decorations, let alone decent starter instruments. Considering the trouble and cost of getting even a low-end erhu in the USA, I think getting one at least a little better is a worthwhile. If you could get a $100 erhu in the USA, it probably cost $25 or less in China. How good of an instrument could that be? I saw an erhu in San Jose priced at $1200 that was not as good as my Cadenza erhu for which I paid less than half.

Best wishes,

David

[cgsimp]

Great! Thanks for all the advice, this is a wonderful site. I'm going to buy the cheaper erhu on cadenza, when I get it I'll reply back.

ps about those tuning pegs...how do they effect the erhu opposed to erhus that don't have them?

[YouLanFengChune]

Bronze tuning pegs have both advantages and disadvantages.

Advantage= easy to tune, no fine tuners required.
disadvantage=metallic ring, lack of material aesthetic beauty

[YouLanFengChune]

And thanks guys, for the recommendations. You guys make me feel that me and my team have been doing the right job.

We'll continue to serve the music community as well as we can, cos we ARE the only craftsmen who are OUTSIDE China, and we are a group of ppl who play music. Our Chief maker is an erhu musician himself.

Just in case you are wondering, though I manage the group, my handiwork ain't good enough even for the cheapest of erhus. My job is the assembly, sometimes, when Chief approves, I get to put the white edge onto the erhu for you guys. Its hot work, cos you need to solder the thing to bend it, and my hands are always bruised and burnt. But its fun!!

Erhu making is a really FUN process, and the outcome is always the happiest moment. My plant makes erhu by hand, and we re getting proud of ourselves. Taiwan actually bought 10, for the simple reason. Our erhu has very little wolf tones, for the $320 version and above, and sounds, sometimes TOO NICE to believe its an erhu. I'll enjoy making it or as long as we're around.

[karl]

I was told that the bronze tuning pegs will loose their tension over time. I have also exerienced that they also seem to more easily go out of tune and require often tuning. Sometimes I can tune my erhu and squeeze the strings a little and the instrument will be slightly out of tune. I don't know if this is because of the pegs or just the quality in my erhu.

Does anyone know if there is something available to 'tighten' the tension in the bronze pegs?

[maaltan]

mine has the worm drive metal tuning pegs. it holds tune extremely well. About the only time i have to retune is when i move the bridge. My cheap erhu has its own special issues, but luckily tuning isn't one of them.

your strings might be slipping. Does your strings have some sort of fiber (silk i think is what mine is) wrapped around the end that goes into the pegs? You can try this:

www.fretnotguitarrepair.com/stringing.htm

It's for guitars, but the theory is sound and should help.

[YouLanFengChune]

An update, which i can hardly belief.

Japan distributors have sold OUT the Made in singapore erhus.
Apparently, taking into consideration that we are making in a humid climate ( humidity >90% all the time) and japan is the drier climate, with lower tem,perature, we had a daring adjustment to the erhu, and Bingo. When our erhus Hit Japan, they sounded sweeter than before.

Hmm, this is good news, juist thought i might share.

[calden]

That's an interesting observation. In the world of guitar-making, building a guitar in a dry climate is considered optimum. An instrument made like this will rarely dry out and crack or split at the seams as the drier wood shrinks. Conversely, a guitar made in a very wet climate under high humidity will be prone to those problems.

I live in retively dry climate. It ain't no Phoenix, but it's far from the mildewy dampness of, say, Portland (hi David.) Guitars that have been made on the north east coast of the US will often develop very similar problems - finger-shredding frets sticking out over the sides of neck, internal braces getting loose, seams separating, etc.

Interesting.

Carlos

[sanmenxia]

Some of my erhus have metal tuning pegs, they stay in tune with no problems, they don't slip at all.

The erhu is very simple in structure, also it's made from relatively dense and heavy woods in thick sections, the main change from going to a cooler and less humid climate that I can see is the effect on the skin, will it be drier and tighter? Does this improve its sound?

[YouLanFengChune]

U see, one p[roblem here is that most erhus in China we see now are MACHINE STRTECHED WITH NO HAND FINETUNING.

the skin is usually over strtched.... when it goes somewhere drier, its gets.......

[cirquelover]

I'm very intrested in buying an erhu, and I was wondering if anyone knows anything of the Lark in the Morning models www.larkinam.com/search.asp?t=ss&ss=Erhu, I was possibly looking into the "better redwood" for $160. Just wondering if anyone else who knows more than I thought it was a good buy or not. Also, I'm not sure if the wood is good or there's something better around that price range that I could find. Thanks in advance for the help. I think this forum is great, and I'm sure it will be a WHOLE lot of help when I actually get started playing.

[davidmdahl]

Lark in the Morning is a pretty fascinating place if you like instruments. In my experience however, they are better for some instruments than others. I have not played their erhu's but I doubt that they know much about them. This is probably okay if you are in a position to try a Larkinam erhu or have it checked out by someone knowledgeable, but I usually try to buy from someone who knows and stands behind their instruments.

An erhu teacher could be a great resource for finding a good instrument. Even though I have a teacher, I went the Internet route and purchased a wonderful erhu and zhonghu from Cadenza. My teacher was so impressed, he ordered several erhus as well. There are other dealers of erhus on the Internet that seem to know their stuff, so your best bet is to ask a lot of questions. A cost of $160 is at the entry level for an erhu. If you are serious about playing, a little more of an investment will be well worth it.

Best wishes,

David

[YouLanFengChune]

Hi,
Thanks for the recommendations.

My small worskhop is now working at full speed, in supplying Erhu to Tokyo, Osaka and Hiroshima. Vancouver is next.

We still have some space for international Orders retail.

With regards to the erhu at $160, (or even the one at $265) i m unable to assess its quality. However, my feeling will be that, at $249 (excluding shipping) our latest Rosewood Erhu, handmade with Grade 2 Skin. It is not Aged Rosewood, but new rosewood, dried over 5 years will be a much steadier choice. This model is HOT when we resell it to China and Taiwan.

Contact me...

and by the way, David, ask Doctor Yang if he still wants some 8-sided erhu. I'm in China till 8 Aug.

[johnwithajinghu]

hi

a note on larks chinese instruments

dont buy them. their junk.
this comes from three not so great (and rediculously expensive) experiences :

im quite sure an erhu skin is not supposed to come off..... come of as in not be attached to the instrument while your playing it (and this was one of their so-called high end erhu) mind you at that point i had had it for about a week. so i call them up and say whats the deal? they replied: o we dont play chinese instruments and its past our 7 day return policy, sorry

a "high end" yueqin's little half moon tail piece fell off, and a jinghu from the same order got a hole in the skin from tuning to a fan-erhuang tuning (pretty much the lowest tuning possible in beijing opera)
shipping for all 3 instruments cost almost double what i payed for them and they wouldnt take them back......

i eventually reskinned my erhu and jinghu, the erhu sounds a MILLION times better and i just dont use their jinghu cuz its junk, my yueqin has been diss-assembled and re-assembled to play gongche pu instead of jianpu and it also sounds a lot better, after i gorrilla -glued the tailpiece back on, like 6 times.....


sorry for the rant

john

[davidmdahl]

johnwithajinghu said:

a note on larks chinese instruments

dont buy them. their junk.
this comes from three not so great (and rediculously expensive) experiences :
<snip>
my yueqin has been diss-assembled and re-assembled to play gongche pu instead of jianpu and it also sounds a lot better, after i gorrilla -glued the tailpiece back on, like 6 times.....

Sorry to hear about your "Shark in the Morning" experiences. I have not had trouble with them, but I am pretty careful what I buy there.

I am curious about what you wrote about gongchepu and jianpu. Are they not simply different types of notation? How does the construction of a yueqin make it better suited for one over the other?

Best wishes,

David

[johnwithajinghu]

hi
gong che pu has been "equated" to jianpu in the way that shang=1 che=2 gong=3 etc but really they are not *exactly* the same, the ones set up for gong che, well to westerners, will not be a perfect major scale, more like a fudged one. this is because the frets are set up in (almost) whole steps (i think thats the word) so the frets are pretty far appart. you see this on a lot of older yueqin and in the rare instances it is played in japan their gekkin(yueqin) has the same spacing

this weird fretting makes it "easier" to play opera music, but you have to make sure that every one elses instruments have the same fretting so you dont sound sharp or flat when playing certain points. most yueqin players have at least one with the old far-apart fretting and one with westernized half step fretting, just incase

john