Oiling snakeskin

[dsouthwood]

I am beginning to learn the erhu after two years of guzheng lessons, and so I have been reading the posts in the erhu forum recently.

In some of the posts, reference is made to oiling the snakeskin head on the erhu. I would appreciated it if someone would supply more information about this. What is the benefit of oiling the skin? How often? What kind of oil?

I remember when I was a child my older brother got a baseball glove as a present. Someone told him that he should oil it, so he did--using cooking oil. The type of oil he used was a drying oil, and it left the glove hard as a rock. I would hate to see someone make a mistake like that with his or her erhu.

Thanks for any info you can give on this.

[sanmenxia]

I would get expert advice from an erhu maker before doing anything to the skin.
I think drying oils eg linseed oil, wouldn't be the right oil anyway. It's used in paints and varnishes, it reacts with oxygen to form a solid layer.

[YouLanFengChune]

hold ur horses!!

Nothing should touch the skin. To lightly clean it, use 100% virgin olive oil. No water should touch it. so please ensure its 100% opil, no additive.

To protect it, sometimes, a bit of beeswax, gently rubbed onto the skin is good. Other than that, its not a good idea.

[paulv]

youlanfengchune said:

Nothing should touch the skin. To lightly clean it, use 100% virgin olive oil. No water should touch it. so please ensure its 100% opil, no additive.

My teacher also recommended olive oil (100%) and I used extra virgin because to get more oil out of the olives, manufactures use various chemicals and I didn't want any chemical residue on the skin -- also, oil the skin once a year.

Take YouLanFengChune's advice and LIGHTLY oil the skin.

Regards,
Paul...

[davidmdahl]

I would think cleaning/oiling the snakeskin would be an extraordinary event. I suppose that spilling a little brew at the local erhu pub session might be a risk <g>, but so far rosin is the only contaminant on my erhu skin.

I can imagine someone dumping a bottle of olive oil on their erhu to 'clean' it. At least it smells good. What would a lot of olive oil do to the strings and bridge? Do the erhu gurus recommend a frequency of oiling? What about amount of olive oil and specific procedures? (removing strings & bridge?) How much time to allow for drying?

It seems there is room here to make a mess.

Best wishes,

David

[sanmenxia]

So olive oil is only for cleaning, right? Do you actually “oil” it, so that the skin is soaked?.
I’m just guessing, but wouldn’t olive oil go gummy and then solid over time?
I’ve never put anything on my erhu skins except rosin dust and they’re 8-10 or more years old. Does that mean they won’t sound their best because the skin is too dry?
I would imagine if you put any oil/wax on it all it would be a very tiny amount.

[YouLanFengChune]

the only time i'm into soaking an erhu is to DE_SKIN it.

some erhu skins are very crummy, and in Singapore, i do provide re-skinning services.
Its actually "fun" the sadistic way. Do you know that you can actually stand on your erhu skin without it tearing? When you're done punishing the skin, simply soak it in water. If it comes peeling off in 1 day, the maker used bull-skin glue. If not, you will need tearing, and they have used chemical glue (EWWWWWWW)

you can take it out, and perhaps you may know why an erhu sounds bad. sometimes, snake flesh is dried but not scrapped off. sometimes they skin has already been torn on a side, but concealed.

All in all, erhu making is fun. I should run a quick course of it.

[dsouthwood]

This is all good information. Thank you.

I asked mainly out of curiosity, because although oiling was mentioned in several threads, I could not imagine messing with the skin unless an expert maker told me to do it and gave me detailed instructions.

My older brother plays the banjo, and has had some very old ones with natural skin heads. He says that he has never heard of anyone using oil to clean one. His guess is that doing so might ruin the tone of the instrument.

Does anyone on the forum know a drummer who has natural heads on his or her drums? I wonder if this is an issue drummers have dealt with.

We use oils and waxes on leather to make it softer and more supple, and it seems that would defeat the purpose of a drum, banjo, or erhu head. If you did something to a banjo or drum head that made it softer and more stretchy, you might be able to correct it by tightening the tension screws, but if you did that to an erhu skin, you would be flat out of luck.

It seems to me that the safest thing is to remain a skeptic on this issue.

[paulv]

When my teacher told me that the skin needed to be oiled once a year, he performed the task first, showing me how to do it on my erhu. He just used a soft, lint-free cloth and put the oil on the skin very sparingly. I noticed that he just put enough oil on the cloth to cover about a half square inch of the skin, and repeated that process.

Regards,
Paul....

[calden]

dsouthwood said:

This is all good information. Thank you.

I asked mainly out of curiosity, because although oiling was mentioned in several threads, I could not imagine messing with the skin unless an expert maker told me to do it and gave me detailed instructions.

My older brother plays the banjo, and has had some very old ones with natural skin heads. He says that he has never heard of anyone using oil to clean one. His guess is that doing so might ruin the tone of the instrument.

Does anyone on the forum know a drummer who has natural heads on his or her drums? I wonder if this is an issue drummers have dealt with.

We use oils and waxes on leather to make it softer and more supple, and it seems that would defeat the purpose of a drum, banjo, or erhu head. If you did something to a banjo or drum head that made it softer and more stretchy, you might be able to correct it by tightening the tension screws, but if you did that to an erhu skin, you would be flat out of luck.

It seems to me that the safest thing is to remain a skeptic on this issue.

dsouthwood:

Besides playing erhu I also play banjo and bodhran, the Irish frame drum. Two of my banjos have the fiberskin heads - plastic with varying thicknesses built in to mimic the sound generation properties of calfskin. I also have a piccolo banjo with a calfskin head. It's very unstable - getting very tight in cold dry weather and floppified in warm humid weather. Funny - I used to play in a Victorian-era banjo quartet, all fingerpicked material on calfskin-headed vintage era instruments, using gut strings - and we performed once at an outdoor festival. Right after we started the rains came in and the barometric pressure and humidity and temperature changed dramatically. We had a terrible time with the strings going out of tune and the heads getting really soft and floppy. It was like fighting to get any clarity to the notes.

I also have a calfskin head on my bodhrans, and they need tending to throughout the evening. All bodhran players carry little spray bottles, or just spit on some Guinness on it and rub it in. One of my bodrhans came with a too-tight head. (I live in a dry area and these things were made in Ireland) and it's not adjustable. I MUST use water sometimes. I rubbed in some Intensive Care skin lotion which has relaxed the head a bit in general.

I've been playing erhu for three, four years now and NEVER found the head too tight - I'd leave it alone or as has been suggested just lightly cleaning it with some olive oil. I wouldn't try and "treat" it for any reason. One can alter the tone by bridge material and placement of the foam rubber / felt thingy under the strings.

Carlos

[sanmenxia]

I asked an erhu teacher about the sound of my erhu being a bit harsh and hard, and she said put some oil or vaseline on the skin. Has anyone done this and has the sound improved? Could it be that a skin that is too dry might not vibrate properly, whereas a skin that's more supple might give a more mellow tone?

[song]

Yes it does help. Just put 1 drop of olive oil on a cloth and apply it on the snakeskin. Take out the dampener and bridge before that of course. Leave it to dry before playing it again.

Regards,
Sung Wah

[sanmenxia]

Hi Sung Wah,

Thanks ! So how long does it take for the olive oil to dry? As a precaution I'm first going to put some olive oil on a piece of paper and see what happens to it. But I suppose if people have used olive oil before then it must be OK.

[song]

You're welcome Sanmenxia. Just leave it overnight for the snakeskin to take in the olive oil. Use the oil sparingly. Be sure to apply it along in the correct direction of the snakeskin scales so you do not accidentally rip some scales out.

Thanks.

[YouLanFengChune]

actrually, sanmenxia

putting olive oil on snake skin does not really help, perhaps just soften the skin (not good in long run)

Erhu makers have a method of making the erhu skin even all over.

[sanmenxia]

I've been looking thorough some of the previous replies, so is putting oil on the skin only for cleaning and maintence but it doesn't really improve the sound?

I was talking to someone yesterday about this, she wouldn't recommend putting anything on the skin as it might become too soft, and that the pressure of the bridge pressing on the skin will then damage it.

I think I'll try other ways, like using different bridges, improving my bowing technique etc first before oiling the skin.

[calden]

I concur. I'd try different densities of felt, cloth, foam rubber, etc., before I'd tamper with the skin. Once a bridge dent is in there, it's THERE, and the head is shot.

Carlos