Pipa Tablature?????

[Bill]

Hi All

I just purchased a Beginners Pipa book through Ebay hoping I could figure out the tablature without being able to read the Chinese instructions. I have been playing Classical Guitar for 17 years and I am an experienced musician, but I can't make heads or tails out of any of this.

Does anyone know of any instructional books out there that are written in english? Or even better any websites that might explain the basics of Pipa notation.

Thanks
-Bill

[YouLanFengChune]

hi!

You could scan a copy of it for me, and i could possibly decipher it for u?

[Bill]

Thanks for the qucik reply. I can't scan anything today from my current location, but here is the first problem. The book shows a grid of the pipa tuned to ADEA with corresponding numbers for each note of the scale. Its sort of like this. I can't really draw the grid

A String C=6: D=5:
D String C=2. D=1.
E String C=3. D=2.
A String C=6. D=5.

I understand that in Chinese music notation, 1=DO 2=RE, 3=MI, etc. I also know that the dots have something to do with octaves. What I don't understand is how the C note can be written as a 6 on the two A strings and be a 2 on the D string, and 3 on the E string at the same time. If thats what they are trying to tell me. I'm not sure.

Since they show the tuning as ADEA I am assuming 1=D, I would think the note C should be written as 7=Ti reguardless of which string you are playing it on.

Do you have any idea what it is they are trying to tell me with this grid?

Thanks again and by the way the chalk tip for the tuning pegs worked great.

-Bill

[YouLanFengChune]

Hmm...
I Understand...

A string, in the KEY of C this is a 6 (la) in KEY of D, this is (5)
D String, in the Key of C this is 2, in the key of D this is 1.
E String, in the key of C this is 3, in the key of D, this is 2.
A String, in the Key of C this is 6, in the key of D, this is 5.


So when they writing C key for you, they will write (6236) or in key of D (5135). It is to tell you the key of the piece in SOLFA.

Thats how the chinese tell about keys, in string solfah. This will ensure uniformity in technique and additions of decorations when playing, especially when playing tradition and ancient stuff. Traditionally, you have to be uniformed in playing not only with the other counterparts of yout own instruments, but others as well.

For example, Erhu, in key of D is (15). They will play, as far as possible, the same decorations as you if they can.

[Bill]

Thank you. I get it now. That grid makes much more sense to me now.

Now for the next hurdle. I don't fully understanding right hand markings. There seems to be a million of them, but if you could help with the basic ones. For instance:

1. What is the difference between / and \ ? Which fingers do you use or is it an alternate stroke with the same finger?

2. There are also \ with three or four lines throught it? Is that like a short tremelo??

3. I am also seeing markings like ( ) / \ ( ) / \. What do the brackets ( ) mean?

4. And lastly I see lots of pinwheel looking symbols? Again I am guessing tremelos but not sure???

Thanks again

[Charlie Huang]

I'm getting a pipa book last week from CCN. I'll help you deciper it when it arrives sometime next week...

[Bill]

Thanks Charlie. That would be a big help. Great site by the way.

-Bill

[Charlie Huang]

Thanks.

I only got the VCD and nails from CCN. They told me they sent it in two packages (why?). I haven't received the other VCD or book yet, so... you'll have to wait a bit longer, sorry.

[Charlie Huang]

Got the book today at last!

Bill said:

Thank you. I get it now. That grid makes much more sense to me now.

Now for the next hurdle. I don't fully understanding right hand markings. There seems to be a million of them, but if you could help with the basic ones. For instance:

1. What is the difference between / and \ ? Which fingers do you use or is it an alternate stroke with the same finger?

2. There are also \ with three or four lines throught it? Is that like a short tremelo??

3. I am also seeing markings like ( ) / \ ( ) / \. What do the brackets ( ) mean?

4. And lastly I see lots of pinwheel looking symbols? Again I am guessing tremelos but not sure???

Thanks again

\ means 'tan' or to pluck outwards with index finger.
/ means 'tiao' which means to pluck with the nail of the thumb back towards you on a string.
\ with four lines through it is 'hua' or to use the index finger to strum all four string strongly so they sound the same time.
\ with three lines throught it is same as hua, but done on three strings.
/ with three/four lines throught it is 'fo' which is the same as hua, but the thumb is used and in the opposite direction (i.e. towards you).
( ) is to use the thumb and index finger to pluck two strings together inwards at the same time.
/\ is opposite of ( ).
The pinwheel symbol means 'lun' which is using your five fingers to pluck a string outwards in quick succession starting with your index and ending with your thumb.

There are plenty more notation symbols, so do ask if you are stuck on anymore (highly likely ).

Good luck!

[Bill]

Thanks a lot Charlie. That will really help me a lot. But I have a question about the first part of what you wrote.

\ means 'tan' or to pluck outwards with index finger.
/ means 'tiao' which means to pluck with the nail of the thumb back towards you on a string.

Do you mean that for a "Tan" or \ I am supposed to strike the string with the back of my index finger?

And with a "tiao" or / I strike it with the back of my thumb nail?

That seems a bit akward. I don't know anything about proper Pipa technique and have always used a classical guitar technique on the instrument. With classical guitar technique we alwasy strike down and away with the thumb nail and up and inward with the index finger, which is more natural.

By the way which VCD did you get. Is it any Good?

[YouLanFengChune]

I think he means you pinch your thumb and index finger together lightly. When you strike down, you'll hit the string with your index finder. When you pick upwards, you'll strike it with your thumb...

Actually, i dun think you pinch it together, simply rely on natural movements. They are betta.

[Charlie Huang]

Bill-san, what Youlan-san said.

lighthy place the top bit of your index finger on the first joint of your thumb. the other fingers are naturally folded towards the palm, but not touching it. like holding a pole say. when plucking away with the index finger, you lighty move your whole hand down and left to the string and pluck it (with the back of the fingernail) and tiao is with theback of the thumbnail and towards you to the right. hope that helps. though if you see it on vcd it would be better explained.

i got the vcd by zhang qiang (mainly because they didn't have the lin shicheng one). it's ok, but very short, and he doesn't explain many other techniques other than the main ones.

(sorry for lack of capitalisation, eating sandwich in one hand typing with other... )

[Bill]

Looks like I am going to have to spring for some Pipa nails. I been getting away with my own finger nails till now. I'll give it a shot though.

Thanks Again

-Bill

[Charlie Huang]

It's best to get nails. They are longer and harder with pointed tips that make playing easier. Look in the pipa nails thread for info on attaching them on.

Also, you should start practicing 'lun' (five finger pluck) coz it's one of the most difficult finger techniques to pull off for any given instrument I know of (and it is used in all pieces appearing regularly)! It feels very unnatural for me to start a lun with the index finger, then middle, ring, little and then tumb (I play guqin and always start with the ring finger, then middle and finally index finger which seems very natural for me). I've been practicing and always get muddled up and it's very frustrating. So it's best to start to practice that early on and get that right before progressing to other techniques. I think regular practice is the key as you might lose it if you leave gaps.

[Bill]

The Lun is going to be a real chalenge for me as well. With the guitar we play tremolos (Luns) with thumb first, ring second, middle third, and index last. We never use the pinky. It took me a long time to master it on the guitar and this 5 finger Lun seems even more difficult.

I really thought this instrument was going to be a breeze to learn. After the first week I got it, I was able to transcribe and play most of dance of the yi people (except the end part where it gets crazy). I can play it fairly well using guitar techniques and tremolos. But I am sure a traditionalist would think otherwise.

Anyway, I don't want to piss off any of the yi people. So I better give the new Lun a try. Thanks.

[YouLanFengChune]

I know its Not online yet, but Cadenza sells Pipa nails and Guzheng nails at about $10 a set, and you can ship 5 sets with $2 shipping. All made of Tortiseshell. I dunno how its done, but it sells for $30 a set in Huston (i saw it)

Go to cadenzamusic.biz/

Click>> Contacts and send an email to the sales desk. You will be attended to by my friend

which reminds me, we got a new pipa in today!
Low price, and very nice. But its a succesful sample by Kaifeng.

[Charlie Huang]

I'm getting my pipa on the 12th December when I collect it off Cheng Yu at a London Yaji. Can't wait to strum away, yes!

I've been practicing lun (in mid-air of course) and have just managed to more or less get it smooth. Trying to use the thumb as well is tricky, it's like concentrating on two different movements. Plus, trying to get a continuous lun can get you a bit muddled up and all over the place. Unfortunately, I got criticised for a lot of 'finger movement' by my cousin when I was at work in her restaurant for practicing lun! Better be careful where I practice next time!

I should have got my pipa nails from Cadenza! Much cheaper! CCN has them for £30!!! the company which makes them is Zhongguo Minzu Yueqi. Is that the same as the ones Cadenza sells? Also, must get some pipa strings.

[Bill]

I checked out that Cadenza web site. Looks like a great store.

How many sets of nails would one need? Do they break or get worn down after a while?

[Charlie Huang]

I dunno about that, but probably two sets, just in case one nail broke, etc. There's also this issue about tortoiseshell and plastic pipa nails to consider. The old forum has a short discussion about it, but it's down to one's tastes and needs.

[Charlie Huang]

Actually, I found out that the old forum is blocked! You need a bloody password to enter! So, grrrr!

[YouLanFengChune]

Finally, Cadenza Announces the sale of Tortoiseshell Picks for Guzheng and Pipa, at $9.99 a set!

cadenzamusic.biz

[Charlie Huang]

I finally got my pipa when I went to the yaji in London!

[twilight]

congrats! I heard it's a difficult instrument to play. Do post a pic so we all can see it ;D

[Charlie Huang]

Will do when I get the time!

[czy]

speaking about synthetic/tortoise shell nails, when you put them on your fingers, it should not be too long.it should be < 0.5cm revealing from your real finger nail. it will reduce the rubbish noises(za3yin1) when you play. ya.