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Post by guzhenglover on Sept 13, 2007 4:36:58 GMT
Hi!
Suppose there are three guqin teachers available to you and they had the following characteristics:
(1) Teacher A (weekly lessons): Young but conservatory trained, meticulous but the pace of the lessons is slow and only lets students work on 1 or 2 piece(s) each week;
(2) Teacher B (generally fortnightly lessons): Older but also conservatory trained; not as meticulous as Teacher A in terms of working on the details of each piece but is good in giving an overall picture of how things should go and encourages students to find things out for themselves. Lets the student work on more than 2 pieces each week as lessons tend to be fortnightly or even longer in between; and,
(3) Teacher C (very irregular lessons; in fact not lessons but more like consultations): Very old and not conservatory trained; can only offer personal opinions and/or do some demos. However Teacher C has an extensive musical background and has enough musical authority to comment on what is/isn't good. The student in this case can work on anything and as many pieces as s/he so pleases.
If you had the opportunity to choose from three different guqin teachers, would you choose to learn from (1) only one of them and, if so, which one and why; (2) two of them as there's no conflict of lesson times and why (perhaps you could think that it's good getting different perspectives on the same pieces etc.); (3) all three of them as you think there's something to be gained from each of them etc.; or (4) none of them as you think that none of them really offers what you think quality teaching should comprise.
Oh, I am asking the above questions on the premise that money and timing aren't a problem. I do have ideas of my own but am just curious about you out there who may have different opinions from me. Try and not make guesses as to whom I am referring to! You'd never guess it right... ;D
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Post by SCWGuqin on Sept 13, 2007 5:45:07 GMT
I think that music instruction includes two rather different aspects. The first of these, which I consider most fundamental, is to <give the student the ability to make music the way SHE wants to>. This means teaching both rigorous technique and an understanding of musical expression and possibilities, preferably systematic. The second aspect of music instruction is <imparting one's own personal style and art to the student>. This will entail leading, even forcing, the student to imitate and absorb one's own peculiarities. Both aspects are important; the first obviously so, the second more subtly so. Mainly I think the second is important because it represents the teacher's own realization of the first goal: the practical realization with which the teacher is most intimately familiar.
Along these lines, I think teacher A is by far the best choice. Meticulous is a very very good thing, even if it's annoying. My teacher was meticulous and I hated it sometimes, but was grateful in the long run. 1 or 2 pieces is MORE than enough to occupy you week to week. Recall my previous posts to the effect that seriously exploring limited melodic material is the essence of the qin art. Repertoire size is completely irrelevant. Go to teacher C for wisdom over tea, not for lessons.
You should only learn from one teacher at a time. It will force you to be more serious in absorbing that teacher's strong points and understanding the weak points as well. Multiple teachers invites not only superficiality but a conflict of personalities--even assuming that all teachers are OK with you learning from all of them (which is unlikely), you'll end up preferring some over others and losing focus all around.
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Post by guzhenglover on Sept 13, 2007 7:18:53 GMT
I am right there with you, SCWGuqin! At the moment, I don't think any one of the teachers is able to provide both aspects as well as one would wish. Having said that, I agree with you that teacher A might be the best choice for the time being nevertheless and since previous related posts, I am more resigned to the idea that learning the qin well is a slow process but I've no complaints now as I do think it's best in the long run. I have the same plan as to how I'd use teacher C - over tea, not for lessons.
I know that piano teachers (well, professionally serious ones) are usually not OK with the idea that their student also has other piano teachers. Certainly that would have meant rebellion and betrayal to my piano teacher when I was young had I even entertained the idea of having multiple teachers since she would never tolerate that. To be honest, I couldn't accept the idea, either. So doing the right thing I guess is very important as one should respect the teacher by respecting what her/his views are (I think, to a large extent, anyway). Having said that, I don't think there'd be any harm in learning from either teacher A or B and have tea sometimes with teacher C, because it's not as if one was having proper lessons with teacher C.
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Post by charliecharlieecho on Sept 13, 2007 8:00:59 GMT
A footnote to SWCGuqin's last paragraph, in my experience few Chinese teachers , if any, will teach more than one piece at a time. It's not in their interest to have students going around saying "X taught me n pieces" if the students haven't achieved a reasonable standard in any of the pieces. The teachers follow Liu Shaochun's dictum: "ban-ge Ping Sha, zou Tianxi". which Lin Youren (one of Liu Shaochun's students) explains as "you can hold your head up anywhere if you can play half of Pingsha Luo Yan, provided you play it well".
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Post by guzhenglover on Sept 13, 2007 8:27:09 GMT
A footnote to SWCGuqin's last paragraph, in my experience few Chinese teachers , if any, will teach more than one piece at a time. It's not in their interest to have students going around saying "X taught me n pieces" if the students haven't achieved a reasonable standard in any of the pieces. The teachers follow Liu Shaochun's dictum: "ban-ge Ping Sha, zou Tianxi". which Lin Youren (one of Liu Shaochun's students) explains as "you can hold your head up anywhere if you can play half of Pingsha Luo Yan, provided you play it well". How interesting. When you said "Chinese teachers", can we assume that you mean guqin teachers and not teachers of other Chinese musical instruments? And I think you mean "ban ge Ping Sha, zou tianXIA". |
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Post by SCWGuqin on Sept 13, 2007 8:32:00 GMT
It's such a great one-liner.
Up there with "yao tan qin, bu yao tan qin", but not as open to abuse!
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Post by guzhenglover on Sept 13, 2007 9:58:43 GMT
It's such a great one-liner. Up there with "yao tan qin, bu yao tan qin", but not as open to abuse!  |
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Post by charliecharlieecho on Sept 13, 2007 10:26:48 GMT
GZL: yes, guqin teachers. I know nothing about other instruments. And yes tianxiA.
SCWG: what kind of abuse do you have in mind? Also, I take it as a statement of relative importance. People aren't going to stop talking about the qin, and WWG's statement makes it clear the WJL himself talked about it.
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Post by Charlie Huang on Sept 13, 2007 10:33:26 GMT
It's such a great one-liner. Up there with "yao tan qin, bu yao tan qin", but not as open to abuse! What Stephen means is that some people take 'yao tan qin, bu yao tan qin,' meaning 'all you need is to play qin, you don't need to talk about qin,' to mean it in the very literal sense of 'only play qin and don't/never talk/discourse about qin'. I'm more inclined to teacher B. |
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Post by charliecharlieecho on Sept 13, 2007 12:08:23 GMT
Teacher B is the GY style, surely?
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Post by guzhenglover on Sept 14, 2007 3:12:26 GMT
Teacher B is the GY style, surely? No - not that I know of, anyway. This discussion about which teacher to choose from has certainly turned interesting, in my view. Can those of you who are in favour of teacher B elaborate a bit more on why you'd make that choice? Thanks. |
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Post by Si on Sept 15, 2007 16:21:42 GMT
i dont think u sould rush to learn many tunes. maybe i did that sort of. now im sort of picking up the pieces of too many tunes and trying to maki it so that i can hold my head up and say yea i can play one or 2 quite well(ish) sort of ish, type of thing....
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Post by gubaba on Sept 16, 2007 1:51:54 GMT
I have always been irritated by people who answer questions with questions but maybe you need to pick the teacher that is going to get you where you want to go.
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Post by SCWGuqin on Sept 16, 2007 2:20:13 GMT
hahahahahahhaha!
Choose the most f!cked up, intense, searing-eyed master you can find! RAWWWWWWWWWRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
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Post by Si on Sept 17, 2007 14:23:24 GMT
just find a teacher that will let you learn the songs you want or gently point out reasons why that song might not be good idea at the moment.
also an open minded teacher with a sense of humor and who does not mind sharing some qin knowlwdge after the lesson has finished.
best if teacher is watching you all the time you play and will correct you diligently.
1 hour i think is best.
(wow from having no teachers - now you have a choice of 3 teachers in singers -wow thats good)
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Post by guzhenglover on Sept 18, 2007 6:43:19 GMT
just find a teacher that will let you learn the songs you want or gently point out reasons why that song might not be good idea at the moment. also an open minded teacher with a sense of humor and who does not mind sharing some qin knowlwdge after the lesson has finished. best if teacher is watching you all the time you play and will correct you diligently. 1 hour i think is best. (wow from having no teachers - now you have a choice of 3 teachers in singers -wow thats good) Do you have a qin teacher now? Or are you still working on polishing up past pieces before resuming lessons? |
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Post by Si on Sept 18, 2007 16:11:12 GMT
haha yeah, its almost like a holiday. Im in sinagpore now, and im getting a few pieces to a stage were i will go back to visit my teacher in Deepavali (november) and get her comments.
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Post by guzhenglover on Sept 19, 2007 3:08:45 GMT
haha yeah, its almost like a holiday. Im in sinagpore now, and im getting a few pieces to a stage were i will go back to visit my teacher in Deepavali (november) and get her comments. Well good for you. Couldn't afford travelling to China just for lessons. |
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Post by Si on Sept 19, 2007 6:00:10 GMT
well i do have other stuff to do as well.....
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Post by guzhenglover on Sept 19, 2007 7:57:44 GMT
well i do have other stuff to do as well.....  |
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