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Post by Si on Sept 9, 2007 3:52:46 GMT
i was was watching to the "history of rock and roll" dvd. Carlos Santana said that to really grab the audience by the collars he would play 2 notes together at the same time to make the effect stronger.
i made me think of cuo in guqin. is this the reason for cuo in qin lore.
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Post by wingplum on Sept 10, 2007 0:39:15 GMT
We don't need audience.
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Post by Si on Sept 10, 2007 0:56:48 GMT
we i was more interested by the power of 2 notes at same time and why it should have a big effect.
also some people might want an audience as in Yaji 's.
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Post by wingplum on Sept 10, 2007 1:45:51 GMT
Do whatever if it please you.
Yaji ? I think it is much easier to find Ya people on youtube.
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Post by Charlie Huang on Sept 10, 2007 7:14:50 GMT
I don't know how to even answer this thread...
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Post by charliecharlieecho on Sept 10, 2007 9:01:30 GMT
Syburn: if you play 2 different notes the effects isn't so much one on volume as the interaction between them, as even if its the same note simultanelously on 2 strings the sound is different - richer, to my each - because the higher frequencies are different (if you play an open 4th string and the 1st string stopped at the 9th hui you'll hear what I mean).
As for an audience, the best one is a couple of friends at home. I've played in public, and don't like it, and don't much enjoy playing at 'yaji' either, which is unfair because I do enjoy listening to other people there.
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Post by charliecharlieecho on Sept 10, 2007 9:02:49 GMT
Sorry: in my last message 'as even' should be 'and even'.
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Post by Si on Sept 10, 2007 11:51:24 GMT
well i was not imagining that any 2 notes played together will sound good, only the right notes (based on some theory that i dont know much about). and that these correct combo of notes would grip an audience (can be your self- its not important)
it was a question about musical theory and the strength and feeling of cuo (2 notes) as opposed to 1 note alone.
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Post by Si on Sept 10, 2007 11:56:07 GMT
what the hell are you talkin about. stop talking about audiences its irrelevant!
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Post by charliecharlieecho on Sept 10, 2007 12:20:54 GMT
OK, musical theory it is: most cuo are played as octaves or 5ths. Octaves would generate slightly different upper partials with slightly different aural effects. 5ths (and 4ths, which are just "upside down" fifths) produce effects which are found satisfying in many traditions, including Western ones. Octaves and ths/4ths also resonate together in ways that can extend their sustain. Those two factors, resonances and increased sustain, are why the qin has cuo.
But 'grabbing ... by the collars' sounds alittle different from 'satisfying'. Other combinations of notes, which are rarely used on the qin, produce a variety of effects some of which are widely seen as discordant but nonetheless can be stimulating in certain contexts. Maybe they're what Santana was talking about. They're widely used, and there's nothing wrong with them.
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Post by wingplum on Sept 10, 2007 14:15:17 GMT
OK, musical theory it is: most cuo are played as octaves or 5ths. Octaves would generate slightly different upper partials with slightly different aural effects. 5ths (and 4ths, which are just "upside down" fifths) produce effects which are found satisfying in many traditions, including Western ones. Octaves and ths/4ths also resonate together in ways that can extend their sustain. Those two factors, resonances and increased sustain, are why the qin has cuo. But 'grabbing ... by the collars' sounds alittle different from 'satisfying'. Other combinations of notes, which are rarely used on the qin, produce a variety of effects some of which are widely seen as discordant but nonetheless can be stimulating in certain contexts. Maybe they're what Santana was talking about. They're widely used, and there's nothing wrong with them. |
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Post by laoqinyou on Sept 11, 2007 0:51:56 GMT
Well having been an electric guitar player, I know what Santana was talking about at least.
Instead of just bending one note up on the G string one entire pitch you do it so that you
get a unison of 2 notes at once with the right note "pressed" at the same time on the next
higher B string along with the bent note on the G string.
It is a most powerful electric guitar technique. And I suppose it is like
cuo in the sense that it gives musical emphasis in the phrase.
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Post by Si on Sept 11, 2007 1:01:59 GMT
reason is there are some clusters of open string cuo's in PAZ and i find them quite powerfull!
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Post by SCWGuqin on Sept 11, 2007 1:14:17 GMT
Ever hear of something called unison? Octaves? Fifths? This is very basic musical knowledge, and intuitive to most people.
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Post by guzhenglover on Sept 11, 2007 4:28:43 GMT
Ever hear of something called unison? Octaves? Fifths? This is very basic musical knowledge, and intuitive to most people. What do you mean by "intuitive"? I think knowing what unison/octavesfifths is comes is an acquired musical knowledge. One could, of course, aurally appreciate the effects that a unison/octave/fifth without formal musical training (I think), but is this intuitive? |
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Post by SCWGuqin on Sept 11, 2007 5:05:22 GMT
Play C and C at the same time. Suddenly I have...MORE C! Now play a melody in one octave and then in another octave. Gee whiz, they're kind of...THE SAME! Maybe if I play C in one octave and C in another...I've got...EVEN MORE C! Fifths I'll give you  |
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Post by Si on Sept 11, 2007 6:02:58 GMT
a bit of a dumbo question but are 5ths the equiv. of C on C in guqin, cos there are 5 string seperating them. I can hear the rain of arrows being losened towards me as I type this...........
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Post by SCWGuqin on Sept 11, 2007 6:45:51 GMT
For questions of this nature, Google might be quicker.
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Post by charliecharlieecho on Sept 11, 2007 8:56:39 GMT
SCWGuqin: wouldn't the "EVEN MORE" depend on giving both strings the same amount of energy as you generally give to only one of them? Hence my suggestion that the main effects of cuo are on timbre and sustain.
Syburn: No. A fifth in musical terms is an interval of 7 semitones, e.g. the difference between C and G, or in qin terms between open pairs of strings with 2 others between them (assuming we're talking about the Zheng diao). So the pairs 1-4, 2-5, 3-6 and 4-7 in the zheng diao all sound as fifths when played as open strings.
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