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Post by Si on Jul 25, 2007 5:07:13 GMT
So carrying on from the DTQC post.
I noticed that most sections end in a chord of open 6th and 3rd strings.
They also use alot of 6.4.
What might that tell us about this piece?
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Post by SCWGuqin on Jul 25, 2007 7:05:15 GMT
7th string 6.4 = 3rd string open?
That's certainly how I remember the piece. PAZ's tonic is on the 3rd string. And it's played almost entirely (if not entirely) zhengnong, so...
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Post by charliecharlieecho on Jul 25, 2007 11:04:04 GMT
If the qin is tuned properly string 7 hui 6.2 = open 3rd string and hui 6.4 is one lü lower. If that applies thoughout PAZ the tonic would be on string 1 so we have another manjue diao played cenong.
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Post by Si on Jul 25, 2007 15:26:26 GMT
what i ment to say earlier was that at the end of each section is cuo on open 6 and 3 string.
6.4 is used quite a bit as well as 6.2. - somebody mentioned 6.4 as a none standard zheng diao position so i thought i'd mentioned it thinking it might be important.
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Post by SCWGuqin on Jul 25, 2007 16:51:41 GMT
Well there do exist multiple versions of PAZ, but I'm pretty sure the "mainstream" one is straight zhengdiao/zhengnong/gong-mode. The 1st/6th string is used as a harmony and is not the main note of resolution.
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Post by SCWGuqin on Jul 25, 2007 17:29:12 GMT
Plus, here's an interesting hint -- if the tonic were 1st string, you would NOT be doing 1/3/6 harmonies - you would be doing 1/4/6, because 4th string forms the 5th interval with 1st. Oops did I just open a whole new topic...
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Post by charliecharlieecho on Jul 25, 2007 20:32:23 GMT
Good point. It suggests that the 7th string 6.4 hui notes are either wrongly written down or some form of modified/passing note. But PAZ is so far down my list of pieces to learn as to be virtually invisible, so I'll shut up.
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Post by Si on Jul 27, 2007 1:23:45 GMT
in may version which is from Qin Xue ei Yao, i dont think they have 7th string 6.4. ok maybe once.
and they hardly use 1st string
so i wonder if we are all talking about different versions - damn why is nothing simple in the guqin world!
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Post by charliecharlieecho on Jul 27, 2007 7:23:42 GMT
The headings to Qinxue Beiyao say the piece is in the zheng diao's zhi mode, which means all the strings keep their original places in the scale but the main note of the piece is the open note of strings 1/6.
Mr Gu's version looks similar at first sight to the one in the Guqin Qu Ji, but there may well be differenced between the two. The latter is the result of work by the Beijing Guqin Research Society and I believe based on comparison of a number of versions, whereas Mr Gu has taken his from Zhang Kongshan of the Sichuan School of playing. But if you really want to see how versions of the same piece can differ, try looking at Ping Sha Luo Yan or Liu Shui in GQQJ. :-)
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Post by Si on Jul 27, 2007 10:54:29 GMT
Well if there is anyone that is very familiar with this piece I dont mind knowing why the 1st string is important when it is hardly ever played?
I sort of imagined that the as many sections end in cuo open 3/6 string - that note would be important.
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Post by charliecharlieecho on Jul 27, 2007 12:57:44 GMT
It's probably not that the 1st string is important in itself, but that the zhi note (which is the note of the open 1st string) is important. How you play that note on other strings is a minor matter - to a musicologist.
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Post by Si on Jul 27, 2007 22:58:31 GMT
so are notes 1 and 6 supposed to have some heavenly or worldly meaning passed down from the ancients of china?
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Post by charliecharlieecho on Jul 28, 2007 5:31:49 GMT
Not necessarily. There are similar things in traditional music from elsewhere, including Gregorian chant and English folk song. It's mainly that by music with its main note on 1 gets on kind of emotional response and music with the main note on on 2 or 3, etc., gets others.
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Post by Si on Sept 25, 2007 14:56:52 GMT
I find those sections where you have to slide down down down up up ect, rather amusing to play. because after you hve struck the string and then slide down max 2 times there is no sound. I think PAZ beginning is famous for this. Its a bit odd, i mean to be honest - why bother when there is no sound. ( looks a bit mystical and zen like when you watch a master vigouously playing but with no sound) My (old) teacher said one school of thought is you can restrike the string to add more sound as you slid down. But thats not the norm.  |
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Post by Charlie Huang on Sept 25, 2007 18:10:04 GMT
There _is_ sound if you play it properly. The trick is to slide up fast in one swift movement and you should be able to get a sound out of the string (not finger sliding sounds but from strings). Of course, some qins are difficult for you to do this...
I think that that bit is one of the important bits in PAZ.
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