Strings on new qin

[carol]

I just imported some qins. I noticed the strings are very different from the ones on my old Zeng Cheng Wei qin.
My old qin has strings that are more similar to guzheng strings, steel wrapped inside nylon. The new strings seem to have much bigger portion of nylon and thinner steel. They are more close to the kayagum strings I bought from China.
I wonder is that a new trend to imitate silk strings?

Any way, it feels so weired to play on these strings. The steel sounding part is missing.

[Charlie Huang]

What brand are they?

Also, note that new qin strings tend to sound 'brassy' when first strung and takes about a few week sof continuous play to mellow them up.

[carol]

Hmm, the interesting thing is those strings are not brassy at all. They sound more like silk strings.

I actually purchased from two different sources. One is made by Tianyi, and the other one is from a private maker in Yangzhou. The strings are different on these two as well. But both have thicker nylon and thinner steel when compare to my old qin. That's why I thought it's a new trend.

[Charlie Huang]

I've never heard of either so I can't really comment until I feel them in the flesh.

[wingplum]

Hi ! Carol, are you going to sell these qin & string ?

[carol]

Yeah, the qins are for sell. I was trying to list those are ebay, then I realized I forgot to take pictures of the back. I didn't order extra strings though. I guess I'm really outdated in the qin. Got to figure out the difference on these strings first.

[tod]

Carol, they do seem to be less metallic than the few others I've tried. - SCWGuqin tried Joel's qin this week - maybe he has some thoughts on their characteristics?

Regards,

Tod

[SCWGuqin]

Unfortunately all I have is scattered observations. For one thing, I haven't disambiguated "sound of string" from "sound of instrument" since I've never heard the same instrument with multiple sets of strings. (hahaha unless you count the Chang Feng qin played by WJL with silk, metal, weirdo-indeterminate-material, and then by WWG with metal)

I just personally dislike a sharp or metallic sound, and so tend to assume that those indicate inferior quality...

Can anyone corroborate my speculation that as qins get better they sound more "mellow", as though somebody dialed back the treble on the equalizer?

[Si]

i imagine its impossible to tell if the qin sounds much different after a few years as you will be so used to playing the same qin every day. Its like you dont notice a close friend getting older if u see them every day.

[carol]

I only raised a few guqins, and I disliked all of them except the ZCW's. Then I ended up selling all those ones I don't like without seeing them grow mature.

But I've raised many guzhengs, and came to distinguish the sound of new zheng and imagine how it's going to sound as it gets old. Normally, I relate the "sharp and metallic" sounding to the strings. As it got played, it turns mellow. Then I relate the 'unsoaked and floating" sounding to the instrument. As it got played, the sound will penetrate soundboard more and turn rich.
Since those new instruments do sound new as they still sound floating and unsoaked, but the sound is not metallic, so I figure that might be new type of strings to eliminate the metallic sounding as new?

[Charlie Huang]

New qins or qins stored away for ages without play need to be played for a long time for them to 'adjust' and 'open up'. Sometimes, you play a qin for many years and it sounds crappy, but one day it suddenly sounds fantastic.

[SCWGuqin]

...yeah, the day you plug into a sound system for the first time and wonder why you were wasting your life without one.

Sorry

[tod]

And what did qin players do before electric amps... played in hallways and caverns?

[SCWGuqin]

They had aesthetics calibrated to the technology available to them. Everything we're accustomed to thinking about music these days is conditioned by the nature of recorded media. I think we can assume that conceptions of musical performance and sonic aesthetics were different before being worked over in that way. I guess I'm just happy with my overstimulated iPod-generation conditioning. Though I know some (probably many) qin players object to that conditioning on principle.

[Charlie Huang]

Nothing wrong with experimentation. So as long as it does end up turning gimicky.

[SCWGuqin]

The main thing for me is, many published qin recordings have substantial sustain and "sonic richness", as compared with the typically soft and tinny sound of real-live unamplified qins. All an amp lets you do is ratchet things up to the level you've heard.

[Si]

and they used qin tables to help the sound.

In the 'lore of chinese lute' they mention (i think - maybe i'm confused with silkqin) playing in a room with wooden floors and also some talk of placing jars under the floor. I thought the jars idea was a bit far fetched but anyway........

[Charlie Huang]

I found a good way to stop strings from slipping. ZCW uses rosin to rub on the string wrapping side before stringing. Basically, if your qin foot is round rather than square or your string doesn't have sufficient wrapping or no wrapping at all, a bit of rosin helps.

I also saw string with no wrapping on the end. Not very good strings I must say. Also, the feet should be 'drum shaped' and not have bits sticking out of it (as in the case for mines) as they will hurt your hands when stringing (you should see ZCW's face when he was stringing my qin!).

[fairlute]

utmostvacuity2 said:

Unfortunately all I have is scattered observations. For one thing, I haven't disambiguated "sound of string" from "sound of instrument" since I've never heard the same instrument with multiple sets of strings. (hahaha unless you count the Chang Feng qin played by WJL with silk, metal, weirdo-indeterminate-material, and then by WWG with metal)

I just personally dislike a sharp or metallic sound, and so tend to assume that those indicate inferior quality...

Can anyone corroborate my speculation that as qins get better they sound more "mellow", as though somebody dialed back the treble on the equalizer?

Have any of you tried the original silk type string, as described here:
"http://www.silkqin.com/03qobj/silk.htm#f14"
Wong Shu-Chee, still makes these strings. I would really like to hear the difference, between the modern and ancient Quin
Anthony

[Si]

yes it really does sound mellow and soft compared to the nylon strings.

BTW - i was playing on my teachers 2 ZCW qins. One is old and deeper the other is brand new and sounds a bit like a rebelous child in comparison. Both though, sound beautiful, full, strong and clear. Love his qins. He only makes a few a year apparently - and they are very modern in the details - all edges are not rounded they are quite sharp. The sound boxes are sharp rectangles instead of rounded slots. Very beautifulllllllllllll

[Charlie Huang]

I don't understand you on about 'ancient' and 'modern'. Do you mean styles? Instrument? Strings?

It is highly subjective. Most modern qins (either with silk or metal-nylon) don't compare to 'ancient' qins (either with silk or m-n). The sound is thus further divided so you can have:

1. Old qin with silk
2. Old qin with m-n
3. New qin with silk
4. New qin with m-n

Out of these, I say the 3rd combo is rarely good as many make qins that are meant for m-n (go for Wang Peng's ones if you have the money). The best of combo 4 are ZCW's qins. 1 and 2 are not worth speaking about as we lot won't have one. But a good old qin is worth a combo 1. I digress.