Vertical Bawu Mouthpieces

[cyc]

Hello experts,

I've been browsing this forum for a while and have learned a lot about the wind instruments that I'm very interested in - they are the dizi and xiao.   Great forum!

I've only decided recently to learn to play these flutes and have absolutely no background in music.  While I was doing research on the types of flute I want to get, I stumbled upon this impressive youtube video (see below) and now I want to try the vertical bawu as well.

youtu.be/tCZ8LLeqO94

I know that the experts out there will probably tell me that I should go with the normal transverse bawu but being a beginner and having played with the dizi, I think it would be easier for me to start with the vertical bawu.

In my search for the vertical bawu, I noticed that there seems to be two types of mouthpieces.  One looks round or like a bell shape which seems to be made of ox horn or plastic and the other is flat and squarish and made of wood.  Is one better than the other or is one mouthpiece a more modern version of the original?  Which came first?  Please see the links below for some pictures.

www.interactchina.com/servlet/the-1468/bawu-pipe-ba-wu/Detail#.UibjPRZomPI

www.chinese-instrument.com/collections/bawu/products/bawu-5

www.redmusicshop.com/Bawu/Professional%20Ebony%20Bawu%20Flute,Played%20vertically

Then, there's this really unique one (to me anyway) that can be vertical and transverse.  Would you recommend this at all?

www.chinese-instrument.com/collections/bawu/products/copy-of-exquisite-chinese-free-reed-flute-black-sandalwood-yunnan-bawu-instrument-detachable

As you can see, the prices vary greatly and for you experts out there, which flute/vendor you recommend?  From my point of view, they all kind of look similar but I do prefer the one from InteractChina where the logo/label at the bottom is a lot more subtle than the others.  However, it's also the most expensive - is it of higher quality?

Also, I prefer the lower key sounds and was thinking of getting one in F key.  Is this a recommended choice?

I appreciate any help you can give to this newbie.

Thanks!

[davidmdahl]

Welcome to the forum, cyc. I have both types of bawu, but when I have the opportunity usually play hulusi because the ensemble tunes have been in C, an uncommon key for bawu. The bawu (transverse and verticle) and hulusi are relatively easy to play, and the fingering is very similar. Either are an enjoyable diversion from dizi. The key of F is most common for bawu, and is a good choice. When you are playing by yourself, any key that pleases you is fine. When playing tunes with others, you will need the key that matches the choice of the group.

Of the vendors you list, I only have experience with Red Music Shop, and the experience was good. I don't know that the musical quality of the more expensive bawu models is any more than the lower priced model. In my experience, the verticle bawu simply costs more due to the design. My favorite bawu is the standard transverse type, due to the better sound, but the verticle bawu is more comfortable to play.

Best wishes,

David

[edcat7]

Hi cyc and welcome.

The above tune is a hulusi tune and the scores and backing track can be found in this book:

www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hulusi-scores-book-with-2-CDs-accompaniment-music-complete-music-/141040557643?pt=Music_Other_Formats&hash=item20d6ac1e4b

I don't have a vertical bawu but have a couple of transverse bawus and loads of hulusis. As far as I can see the vertical bawu is played the same as the hulusi. With many hulusi tunes "double-tonguing" with speed is required. This is much, much more difficult on a transverse bawu because when you play the highest note you actually let go of it with your left hand and are holding it just with your right thumb and right little finger.

So if you want to play the above tune either get a vertical bawu or better still a hulusi. The hulusi has the advantage of having a drone pipe as well. If you are going to get a hulusi please show me the link first as one type of drone is completely useless.

Best wishes

Ed

[cyc]

David and Ed, thank you for the welcomes and great information.

I'm so glad that you brought up the hulusi because I've been eying that as well. I feel like I should learn to walk before running and should maybe stick with starting out with one instrument like the dizi but the unique sounds of these other instruments interest me greatly.

Based on the information from the both of you, I'm definitely going to get a vertical Bawu in the key of F. As for the hulusi, I remember reading a thread in this forum where someone hinted that InteractChina was THE place to get a good quality hulusi. So, I've been considering the one below in C key (best key for the Hulusi?):

www.interactchina.com/servlet/the-1625/gourd-flute-hulusi-woodwind/Detail#.UigAkhZomPI

Please let me know what you think. Even though most videos I've seen on youtube don't seem to use the drone pipes much, that's the one feature that I would definitely like to try.

And Ed, I've already ordered the book you suggested - thank you. I was actually worried about where I can music sheets and backing tracks should I go with these unique instruments!

I would appreciate any recommendations on other shops or instruments you have experience with. My main concern is to get higher quality instruments so that I won't have to upgrade down the road or I can pass on to someone should I give up on them. I've also read that a beginner should start with a good well-tuned instrument.

Thanks again for the great information and I look forward to your replies.

cyc

[edcat7]

Just a quickie before I go to work. Don't spend too much on a hulusi and though Interactchina is a reputable company, that type of drone switch (which you would rarely use anyway) is absolutely useless.

Although the hulusi/bawu is a relatively easy instrument to play you'll need help with your timing and double tonguing if you want to play along to some of those tracks in the book.

[billdsmall]

First of all, don't be fooled by the young girl playing vertical bawu in the video, Anica Tsang. She may look like she's 12 years old, but I think she's really a 35 year old ringer! Of course I'm kidding, but seriously she seems to be a very precocious and talented musician. Anica has Youtube videos of herself playing bawu, hulusi, dizi, flute and piano. Not bad for a preteen, eh?!

Secondly, there probably isn't much of a difference in the mouthpieces of vertical bawus, Mine's plastic and rectangular but I'm confident that I could play just as poorly if it were round or square or oval-shaped. If you're looking for a durable inexpensive vertical bawu, I recommend on Ebay a bakelite (plastic) model sold by Eastfelicity. Price is $49.99 plus $8 shipping to the States. I bought 2 of them separately, and each took less then 3 weeks from Beijing to Ohio. I think the quality and sound is very good, although I have never seen a wooden bawu. The plastic ones from Eastfelicity are much easier to play than the plastic one I bought from Hongyueqi.

So for $58 it's the best deal I've found. I have no idea if the wooden vertical bawu sold by Interactchina for $128 or so is better or not.

Good luck and happy playing!

[edcat7]

Oct 6, 2013 23:09:26 GMT edcat7 said:

I've just bought this:

www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271278452285?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

There is a hulusi piece in G which is very difficult to play with a transverse bawu so I got the above. The price is very good and I have plenty of spare G reeds. As you can see from the listing the reeds are accessible.

The above hulusi tune isn't difficult; the hardest part for a non musician is getting the timing right to the backing track. At the beginning of my musical journey, without any previous music background, and with a bit of help from my teacher, I managed to learn and play well 'Phoenix Bamboo under the Moonlight' in two months.

[edcat7]

Not wishing to denigrate Anica Tsang who is a fine player but the hulusi isn't difficult to play. After 2-3 months tuition on it I wanted more challenges so I switched to the dizi. A piano player, who would have perfect timing together with playing the dizi or flute would have an ideal background to be able to play the hulusi/bawu.

[billdsmall]

Hey there edcat7, I just bought a vertical F bawu from the same seller. Great price, thanks much for the tip.

[edcat7]

That's great Bill, when we receive our bawus we should compare notes. If you can understand jianpo I highly recommend the above book.

In an ideal world I'd like a G hulusi but haven't seen anything that I like on the internet so my teacher will bring me back one from China, the next time he goes back. In the meantime the value vertical bawu seems like a good punt.

Ed

[cyc]

I wish I had waited a bit longer and seen your latest posts before ordering the black vertical Bawu from Interact China for $128.  I placed the order and patiently waited 20 days for delivery while it was being "tuned".  Even though I knew it was a lot more costly than some of the other models being sold online, I liked the one that was shown on Interact China's site because I thought the flat mouth piece would provide a better seal for my fat lips than a round mouth piece and I liked the toned down look of the logo.  However, when I received the Bawu, it was basically the same as the other ones being sold online (e.g. from redmusicshop.com for $71).

Now, here comes the questions:  The bawu arrived with some cracks, and blemishes in addition to a mouthpiece that was different than what was shown on the vendor's website.  Also, it looks like some kid tried to modify the finger holes themselves...very unsightly and poorly done.  There are a small cracks in the finish caused by the drilling.  There were remnants of pieces of wood in the included carrying case.  I have never played a bawu before and I think it's normal that you have to use a lot more force to blow it than let's say a dizi or xiao?  However, the sound that comes out of it is quite faint and not very loud.  Is this normal?  The other question is that (I have attached some pictures of the poor quality workmanship here - hope you can see them) please take a look at the pictures I've uploaded and let me know if this is the normal level of quality I should expect for such an item.  I expressed my concerns to Interact China and was told to send some pictures to her but it's been two weeks since I've sent the pictures and I have not received any response from them after I sent multiple emails to them requesting confirmation that they had received the pictures - no reply.  I'm a little concerned and after looking at the defects in the $128 flute as well as the lack of response from the vendor.  Therefore, I wish to return it.  Please let me know if I'm being reasonable or not.



 

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[edcat7]

Hello cyc

Sorry to hear about your recent purchase. I'm assuming you're in the US as my experience with interactchina in the UK has only been positive. For a start it looks playable, my guess is if you gently adjust the reed by flicking it gently with a pin it should sound better. The workmanship does look poor and I think you have a case for a refund. If you paid by paypal you can go through their customer services; if you didn't, I think there isn't much you can do.

I've bought a few turkeys in my time, one of them was an expensive rosewood hulusi. We all learn from our experiences and carry on.

I haven't received my vertical bawu yet but I know the transverse ones do require more breath than the dizi. I think I've bought around 15 hulusis in search of that "sound" and my favourite ones are also the cheapest. I think that sound is reverb mixed on the recordings. It's a bit late now but the one I've bought for the money, you can't go wrong.

Sorry I can't be of anymore help.

Ed

[cyc]

Thank you Ed - I appreciate your advice.

I'm based on the west coast of Canada. I guess I've been pretty lucky so far with online purchases (since late 90's) and this is the first time that I felt I need a refund or exchange. I bought 2 flutes from Eason Music and 1 from a Taiwanese seller and they all arrived in pristine condition so I thought the bawu should be in better shape as well. While looking further into the policies of Interact China, I noticed they pay affiliates 12% commission on their products so I knew there was a large markup but still made the purchase anyway with hopes in getting exactly what I wanted.

Yes, fortunately, I did pay by paypal but I just sent Interact China one last email giving them a chance to reply by the next day before I initiate a dispute with paypal.

The hulusi is my next purchase so I think I'll go with your experience and get some cheaper ones. Do you have any recommendations? And don't worry, I won't blame you if I get a dud because I know nothing is guaranteed when buying online without having the opportunity to check the item in person.

Thanks again.

[edcat7]

After 15 hulusis I know what to look for now I don't have any idea how to upload photos but don't get the type of hulusi with a switch for the drone. Unfortunately this type seems to be the standard and is the most common. Best get the ones where both the drones are exactly the same length and uses a hole as a drone switch.

However you'll rarely use it; one of my favourite tunes, on page 9 of the above book is played on a tiny D hulusi and double tongueing with the drone on is used. I've seen several budget hulusis (unfortunately with the drone switch) which I think would be fine up to intermediate level. Perhaps in future you could post a link of any purchases in consideration.

Ed

[edcat7]

Just got my new vertical bawu today. I only had a quick look at it: it's very easy to play, sounds good although it plays slightly high but it's great value for money.

[billdsmall]

Ed,

I'm glad and encouraged to read that you're pleased with your new bawu. According to the US Postal Service, my F will be delivered tomorrow (Monday).