too loud notes in the higher octave?

[bacchus]

Hi again,

Thanks for yesterday's advices. I have another question regarding playing in the higher octave. Although I manage to get out the sound, it is just very loud and ear-splitting, nothing like the ones I have seen on Youtube videos. If I try to blow softer, the sound disappears alltogether. Unfortunately, I don't have access to any kind of flute teachers to help me with these things. What am I doing wrong? Is this one of those problems that will resolve itself with practice as my "embouchure" develops? 

Thanks
bacchus

[yudingbon]

Hello bacchus,

The second octave sounds when there is a change in air stream angle and/or speed. Firstly, pitch the angle of the airstream further down to maintain the second octave. This will make the note slightly flatter, but is an option until your embouchure control increases. You can then blow softer without too much worry of falling back to the first octave.

Most beginners increase the speed of the air stream, to hit the second octave, by blowing harder. This, however, wastes a lot of air and produces too much volume. You should aim to shrink the size of the hole of your lips. The same air pressure from the lungs plus a smaller hole equals a greater speed. It takes practice and a mirror really helps the process. Also, do not pull the corner of the lips back. This reduces the amount of control you have over the lips. Instead, try to force the corners forward slightly. Focus on the very tip of the lips, and work towards pinching them together while still having a hole (blowing while gently doing this helps; you do not need to be blowing into the flute to practice this).

Hope that helps a bit.

[davidmdahl]

I suggest searching on Youtube for videos on how to play the flute. There are probably websites on the topic as well. The best option is to find a teacher though. Even a lesson or two will be a big help to you. If you are in a rural area without flute teachers, then maybe there is a city nearby that might have someone to help. It would be worth a trip. A little instruction will save you hours and hours of time, and help you avoid bad habits. Maybe you can even arrange for lessons via Skype or whatever is used now for that.

If you let me know your general area, I will see if I know anyone there.

Best wishes,

David

[Taurwen]

I was having similar difficulties, so I came with an additional solution... To play the higher notes, I move my dizi a little bit to the left. I think this makes the air hit a smaller part of the hole and thus produce a higher-pitched sound. Is it something very wrong to do?

[Blue]

Generally, it is bad practice to move the dizi to produce higher pitched notes. You'll notice that professional dizi players are very rigid with respect to their flutes and their lips even if the rest of their bodies move a lot. Additionally, I would initially discourage novice xiao players from moving their xiaos too much with respect to their lips even though professional xiao and shakuhachi players do move their notched flutes a lot with respect to their lips.

One should focus more on the direction of one's breath, the use of one's diaphragm, and the method one tightens or seals one's lips. Instead of moving the dizi to the left to reach higher octaves, one could try to redirect one's breath a little more to the right. One could try to partially "zip" one's mouth from left to right in an attempt to focus one's breath to produce a higher pitch.

[thebamboogrove]

There is still angling issue with higher octaves taught to me by late maestro Yu Xun Fa in a private class in Shanghai 2002.

Generally, if we assume that if we blow straight ahead , its 90 degrees, and we blow vertically downwards its 0 degrees, for the sake of simplicity in this description, the lowest note must be at zero degrees, and the highest note will be close to 85degrees. When we play through a scale, the angle is constantly changing, and so will the intonation of the note. Most new players experience the fact that the low notes are pitched a little higher and the high notes pitched a little lower. This is normal and is adjusted for by the method above. This will also help those who feel that high notes are harder to play. Some traditional teachers teach a variation of this method by asking musicians to turn the dizi or tilting their lips, as taught by Maestro Yu, the simplest way is to angle the air column using your upper lip. the more the outer lip protrudes, the lower the angle.

Moving dizi left and right may mean that your original embouchure has an issue with placement. My students are always taught that no matter what note you play, remember at the speed of air column is what determines your frequency of note in octaves (actually harmonics) [v=f(lumbar)] and that v is determined by pressure created at embouchure, so P=F/A, henceforth, to create a larger amount of pressure, limited by lung capacity, try tightening the embouchure by a bit towards the centre. Ensure that the airstream is continuous. Its like pulling a thread of air out of our lips. With that, we should be able to hit, when the dizi has all its notes closed being low 5, a doubling sharp 1 or more.

[edcat7]

Wow, you were taught by the late, great Xun Fa?

Funny for me, this thread should pop up now. I bought a G dizi a couple of years ago but it has laid untouched till now. I have no problems with other dizis, E all the way to low G. Since I'm practising G on the erhu I thought it would be a good idea to play the same tune on a G dizi. It is a totally different kettle of fish. The higher octave particularly on the first three holes are particularly difficult. But then again I've only been practising the G for five minutes.

[thebamboogrove]

I had only the luck of having a few lessons with him.

Did you mean that the intonation of the notes were difficult or the timbre and tone was difficult? I have 2 dimo holes on my Big G flute to make sure the tone stayed right cos the first 3 notes usually will tend to lose the tone of the membrane.

[edcat7]

Thanks TBG (do you have a name),I meant I had some problems on the high G rather than the low one. My second five minutes an hour later was much more successful.

btw. when my teacher buys a dizi (which is very rarely) he chooses the fattest one in the bunch. Do you have any comments about this; because it seems a fatter high G might be easier to play?

Also is the tone between purple bamboo and bitter bamboo much different?

Even having had a few lessons with the great Xun Fa must have been a great honour and experience.

Ed

[thebamboogrove]

TBG is my pen name and thats fine too.

Well, the rounder, fatter dizi does give a bigger sound, and i have several of every key to have a range in case i need to do a specific recording.
On the flip side, fatter dizis are less sensitive and responsive. As per laws of physics, the diameter does not affect the intonation, but you may need to push the cork close to the blowing hole to have a faster response.

Purple bamboo has a unique tone, but the bitter bamboo has a more generic tone but is clearer and easier to play. I prefer purple bamboo for recordings, bitter bamboo for performances and concerto as it blends in much better. If you see on my site, www.orientalmusic.org, i don't carry purple bamboo as the I always believed they are neither meant for playing if the bamboo is not good enough, and good enough purple bamboos are absolutely rare, too rare to have a regular supply.

I do have one preference tough, I use unjointed dizis only for performances and soloist dizis. Your preferences?

[edcat7]

Dec 17, 2013 3:48:21 GMT thebamboogrove said:

TBG is my pen name and thats fine too.

Well, the rounder, fatter dizi does give a bigger sound, and i have several of every key to have a range in case i need to do a specific recording.
On the flip side, fatter dizis are less sensitive and responsive. As per laws of physics, the diameter does not affect the intonation, but you may need to push the cork close to the blowing hole to have a faster response.

Purple bamboo has a unique tone, but the bitter bamboo has a more generic tone but is clearer and easier to play. I prefer purple bamboo for recordings, bitter bamboo for performances and concerto as it blends in much better. If you see on my site, www.orientalmusic.org, i don't carry purple bamboo as the I always believed they are neither meant for playing if the bamboo is not good enough, and good enough purple bamboos are absolutely rare, too rare to have a regular supply.

I do have one preference tough, I use unjointed dizis only for performances and soloist dizis. Your preferences?

I really don't know, I have a budget purple bamboo so I really can't compare it with some of my dearer bitter bamboo dizis. Anyway I have enough dizis to last me until they should crack at a much later date. I'm just playing for fun and something to do when I retire. I don't think I'll ever be good enough to be a professional....unless you consider busking as a profession

It seems the Chinese professional music world outside of the far east in quite small. You're bound to either know my teacher or a friend of his.

[thebamboogrove]

Your teacher is?

I cracked my dizi badly 3 days ago. It was a 6 year bamboo from 2 years ago. It cracked. Mr Jiang GuoJi gave me a 30 year old small G which sounds sweet as honey. It cracked last winter.

Surprisingly once all these dizis are fixed, they actually sound better than ever before. My theory is that when a dizi cracks, it adjusts itself to the climate of the place it is in.

[edcat7]

My teacher is Li Ming...I know I know, a very popular name; he's currently performing in Hungrary.

Bao family dizis aren't that well known in the West. I have a friend who swears by them and bought his in Hong Kong for a ridiculous price of GBP£200-300.

Since I can't read Chinese (except the menu and a few poems) can you post some youtube links of high G dizi music please?

[Blue]

So when the dizi cracks, to you point of view "塞翁失馬" or in Japanese "人間万事塞翁が馬."

[thebamboogrove]

well... what's cracked is cracked. I started feeling that way when my 30 year old dizi given by a teacher cracked. Nothing can stop dizi from cracking, and certainly every performer has a whole series of cracked bamboo flutes.
塞翁失馬 is what I said on FB and I thank the deities of music that they sound better. Haha