|
Post by mcpl on Apr 13, 2013 16:16:04 GMT
Hello there, I'm a Newbie I've always loved the sound of dizi, and I would love to purchase one. I'm in London, England, so it'll be great if I can find a dizi from a music shop, for under £30 (Around 45 dollars). So is there any shops around central London? If not, I've seen some D major Dizi's and I could get it from Amazon.co.uk, although due to them being from carrotmusic in USA they are subject to pricey custom charges (I know, because my violin case from china doubled tripled in price after I had to pay £24 postage and £28 custom fee for a £20 case... ouch). Is there a way to avoid custom charges, or if I have to pay them, can anyone give a rough estimate how much it'll be for a Dizi thats £20, and with £10 postage? Thanks Oh oh, also, I saw a membrane hole free Dizi on Amazon! www.amazon.co.uk/Model-CD101K-Membrane-hole-free/dp/B0048QOXW8/ref=sr_1_40?s=musical-instruments&ie=UTF8&qid=1365867291&sr=1-40&keywords=diziWhat is the advantage of this, except for avoiding inconvenience? Or does the membrane hole dizi actually sound better? Thank you for your help~ MCPL
|
|
|
Post by davidmdahl on Apr 13, 2013 17:45:41 GMT
Hello MCPL, and welcome to the forum. Since I am not from the UK, I can't offer any advice for navigating UK customs. You might contact customs to see what the duty would be on a dizi. I googled on bamboo flutes london, and came up with www.justflutes.com in Croydon. They apparently have a single model of dizi for 50 pounds. It looks like Hobgoblin also has a dizi for about the same price. I don't necessarily recommend these sources, but it may be cheaper and less complicated for you. I think that you will get a better dizi from overseas, but you could at least get started with one purchased in the UK. You might contact Sung Wah at Eason Music in Singapore. He might have some UK customers that could relate their experiences with customs. For that matter, you could ask the same of Carrot Music. If you like the dizi sound, then you will want a dizi with a membrane hole (dimo). The membrane is what provides the buzz associated with the dizi sound. Best wishes, David
|
|
|
Post by Blue on Apr 13, 2013 18:06:26 GMT
I was at Hobgoblin in London last week actually, shopping for a tin whistle. They do have a small selection of dizis in a glass cabinet partially hidden from view by some low-pitched membrane free flutes. If you want a membrane free-flute, you could go to the UK Tony-Dixon website to purchase a polymer flute: www.tonydixonmusic.co.uk/catalogue/dixonshop.htmlIn such case you would be looking for DX018 - Tuneable Polymer Alto Flute pitched in A for £25.1. An alto-A pitched western flute is equivalent to the standard D-pitched dizi. Carrotmusic is actually based in Hong Kong, and they have a website www.carrotmusic.com They use also use amazon and ebay as part of their e-commerce platforms. Avoiding UK customs can be tricky. Let's wait for edcat to respond.
|
|
|
Post by davidmdahl on Apr 13, 2013 23:04:40 GMT
I don't think that Tony Dixon sells any membrane flutes. At least, I did not see any listed on the website. Their flutes are intended mainly for Irish and other such traditional music. Even bamboo flutes without the dimo have a different sound than Irish flutes. For the buzzy dizi sound, you will need a dizi. If you don't want to fuss with the membrane at first, you can always tape over the hole. Here is yet another UK company that sells a dizi, again for the familiar 49 pounds. www.knockonwood.co.uk/details2.asp/ProductID/2753/dizi-chinese-bamboo-flute.htm
|
|
|
Post by edcat7 on Apr 14, 2013 0:38:08 GMT
Hi mcpl
There's a Chinese music shop in Chalk Farm/ Camden but I really won't bother with it. The prices are high and the quality is average.
Either the custom's are clamping down or you've been particularly unlucky. Some other Londoner in an earlier thread mentioned he wanted to get a dizi. I offered mine but I never heard from him again. I work in the Edgware area and you're welcome to have mine if the travelling isn't too far.
I've bought so many dizis over the internet and so many of them are mediocre, it would have been far cheaper if I had bought the best from the beginning. But not once did I have to pay customs.
Since you play the violin, have you considered the erhu? You will take to it like a duck to water.
Now the topic of UK custom's charges is really apt for me. I bought a whole load of stuff but all crammed into a gaohu case. Actually my understanding is you only pay customs charges if the goods exceeds the value of £70. But I may be wrong.
|
|
|
Post by Blue on Apr 14, 2013 3:49:34 GMT
I've typed too fast and didn't copy-edit my previous post, which has now been updated. But it doesn't change the fact that in terms of tuning, what is considered an alto-A pitched western flute is equivalent to what is considered the standard D-pitched dizi.
I have to disagree. I own a shinobue, which is a Japanese membrane-free flute, pitched in alto C using the Chinese pitch reckoning method and an identically pitched Tony-Dixon flute. They pretty much sound the same to me, which could be explained by the fact that they have very similar embouchure and the heavy use of lacquer in the bore of the shinobue.
|
|
|
Post by davidmdahl on Apr 14, 2013 5:34:36 GMT
Well Allen, I guess that I can't claim that everyone can tell the difference between various types of flutes, or care, but I have wood conical flutes for Irish music, cylindrical bamboo flutes for Chinese, wood and bamboo flutes for Vietnamese, and others that I won't list. I find a different character in each one. The bamboo flutes are quite different to me, especially from conical Irish flutes. I will grant you that a cylindrical wood flute may not sound much different than a bamboo flute, if all other aspects are the same, but usually they are not. Probably the difference is more obvious to the player than the audience.
I don't have a shinobue or a Dixon flute, so cannot comment on how much alike they sound.
|
|
|
Post by mcpl on Apr 14, 2013 13:25:43 GMT
Hi mcpl I offered mine but I never heard from him again. I work in the Edgware area and you're welcome to have mine if the travelling isn't too far. Since you play the violin, have you considered the erhu? You will take to it like a duck to water. Ah yes, that dizi that I saw mentioned in the other thread... but didn't you say it was out of tune? Maybe I should just ask my parents to buy me one for my birthday...? ;D I've considered the erhu... but I didn't like the sound, I actually also play the clarinet and the fife (a little flute in C, rather like a piccolo without keys) which is very unforgiving with the embouchure... I have settled on the dizi, though I'm beginning to take to the xiao too! In your opinion, is it easier to order off the website or from Amazon? And instead of ordering dimo, is it okay to use cling film or even clear tape? It's just too much effort to keep on ordering and resticking dimo with the erjiao every couple of weeks. Also, is there any websites with jianpu music, for a beginner? It doesn't matter if its a Chinese website as I am Chinese.... Now I'm thinking of it, maybe I should bring a few back from China... that is if I don't die of desperation to play the dizi before July comes. (Thank you for the quick replies! This is a lovely forum!)
|
|
|
Post by edcat7 on Apr 14, 2013 14:50:47 GMT
Yeah, I have a couple of unwanted D dizis; one is completely out of tune, the other is perfectly in tune but with absolutely no projection.
If you really are nice to your parents you might persuade them to get you a Dong Xie Hua from Eason, probably the best dizi for the money.
Changing the dimo isn't that difficult but it takes practise; too tight and the tone is flat, too loose and it's difficult to control the buzzing. And as the dizi warms up during play the dimo tightens up slightly anyway.
Finding a dizi teacher in London shouldn't be difficult.
|
|
|
Post by ziman on Apr 15, 2013 2:10:54 GMT
Hi mcpl, welcome to the forum! These sites are good sources of jianpu music if you know Chinese: 搜谱网: www.sooopu.com/JianPu/中国古曲网: pu.guqu.net/(You will find that the second site I listed, guqu.net, has a better selection of traditional pieces (古曲). The first site, soopu.com, is less genre-specific, but is less comprehensive than guqu.net in its coverage of traditional pieces.) Another site I use from time to time is huain.com, but that site seems to have been hacked today-- my antivirus flagged the site saying there is a trojan horse there. Therefore, stay away from that site for the time being. There is also a set of dizi-specific jianpu scores here: cndizi.globalmi.com/accidence/dixiaoopern.php
|
|
|
Post by Blue on Apr 16, 2013 15:30:14 GMT
Mcpl,
If I were you, I would wait till July and go to China and try those dizis and xiaos in person. It's only three months after all. If you were to use clear tape to cover the dizi, it won't sound as good since it lacks the buzzing membrane. You can use clear tape if you really have to, but that would damage the paint on the dizi. I've seen one forum suggesting using food wrap / Saran wrap to wrap around the membrane hole area to cover the hole up!
Alternatively, since you are beginning to learn how to play the dizi, just go ahead a purchase a membrane free flute from carrot music. It's not a very expensive investment after all.
(Personally, I prefer the xiao, but why did they construct it to be either six fingers or eight fingers . . . . . . . why couldn't one create a version with seven fingers?!)
|
|
|
Post by davidmdahl on Apr 17, 2013 7:24:55 GMT
I have used magic tape from time to time on a dizi, but never damaged the finish. None of my dizi flutes are painted though. They are all either natural bamboo, or have a shellac finish.
I think it is a great idea to plan on getting a dizi or two during your trip to China, but the more you know about playing the dizi and what you like the better. Either order an inexpensive dizi from one of the vendors we have discussed, or borrow one from Ed, and have some fun with it. Then you will be better equipped to find one during your trip that you will like.
|
|
|
Post by Blue on Apr 17, 2013 11:41:37 GMT
If Magic Tape refers to scotch tape, it has ruined the shellac glaze of one of my flutes.
|
|
|
Post by Blue on Apr 17, 2013 12:31:49 GMT
Alright, here's my complete collection of Alto-C flutes that I meant to show to certain people. From bottom to top: bitter bamboo, queen's tears, Tony-Dixon polymer, Shinobue, 8-hole dongxiao, and 6-hole dongxiao. Observe that blowing location and the start of the finger holes are roughly the same location across all the flutes. Also observe that the Tony-Dixon and and the shinobue have similar (if not identical) sized finger holes. Only the bitter bamboo flute and the queen's tears flute have membrane holes. Very hard to judge regarding the differences in ellipticity of these blowing holes. Here one can see that the shinobue is heavily lacquered in the bore yielding a more plastic-type response; additionally, the bore is extremely smooth. This would then make it comparable with the Tony-dixon flute. If I can find a place without pesky neighbors, I will play all of these flutes with my corrupted rendition of Purple Bamboo Melody and post it as a video.
|
|
|
Post by Blue on Apr 21, 2013 11:08:08 GMT
Okay, here's the beginning of my horrible youtube Alto-C busking. Eventually I'll figure out how to remove myself from the youtube video with only the audio recording . . . . . .
Start off with bitter bamboo:
Shinobue:
Tony Dixon:
|
|
|
Post by Flolei on Apr 21, 2013 13:13:01 GMT
Shinobue sounds pretty good, I thought it would be harsher. Thanks for sharing photos and recordings.
|
|
|
Post by Blue on Apr 21, 2013 16:05:05 GMT
Because that's not the standard Shinobue. The Shinobue I have is pitched in G on the western pitching scheme (ie XXXXXX) and alto-C in the Chinese reckoning (ie XXX000). A standard Shinobue is pitched around G in the Chinese pitching scheme, so the typical Shinobue is supposed to be high pitched. Shinobues are pretty expensive though (around US$100-200, gasp).
|
|
|
Post by Flolei on Apr 21, 2013 16:29:08 GMT
I understand better. It really sounds good.
|
|
|
Post by Blue on May 12, 2013 9:31:45 GMT
Well, here's a demonstration of a higher pitched shinobue. I dare not enter the highest octave.
|
|
|
Post by westernmusician on Apr 30, 2016 1:11:27 GMT
Hello there, I'm a newbie as well. I would like some information as to where I can by a xindi flute. I live in the US, and every site I go to, turns out not to have any. Also, would it be easier for me to play the xindi or the dadi since I have some experience in western flute? I would really like to know before i tell my parents to get one for my birthday, coming up.
|
|
|
Post by Blue on Apr 30, 2016 9:31:03 GMT
Don't recommend purchasing the xindi flute because it has eleven holes (when a human has ten fingers). A non-finger part of your hand has to cover one of the holes.
The dadi would be difficult to play if you don't have experience with very long flutes as a piper's grip is required. There's a large spacing between the holes for the dadi.
Did a taobao search for "新笛," but ended up seeing a lot of regular dizis, probably because most people don't order it in the first place. I have a xindi, which I purchased from a maker in Taiwan, but I haven't been using it.
Why in particular are you interested in the xindi flute? Lack of buzzing membrane? Low pitch? Wanting a fully chromatic bamboo flute? Fascination that its name matches that of a collective group of six species found in the TV show Star Trek Enterprise?
|
|
|
Post by davidmdahl on Apr 30, 2016 20:10:56 GMT
Welcome to the forum, MCPL. A xindi is simply a dizi in the low range, from F to Bb, using the Chinese method of determining the key. A xindi does not necessarily have more than six holes. The lowest flutes in this category often have four finger holes for the right hand, for example my xindi in G by Dong Xue Hua (DXH)has seven finger holes. More holes can be ordered in other sizes of dizi, but these are not off-the-shelf.
For someone new to dizi, I don't recommend a xindi. The finger stretch is challenging for most people, and it is better to get used to playing on a smaller di so that better habits can be learned. The best keys for starting are C and D (qudi). These are the Chinese designations for flutes that in the West would be G and A. A Chinese flute key is described by the note played by covering the three left hand finger holes. The D qudi dizi is very useful, since many traditional tunes are in this key. The finger spacing is fairly comfortable, and the embouchure is not too demanding. Higher keys of dizi, such as the G key, require a more focused embouchure like a fife or piccolo.
Eason Music in Singapore is a good source for dizi flutes in any key you need. I have been very happy with the flutes and other instruments I have purchased from Eason.
Best wishes,
David
|
|
|
Post by Blue on Apr 30, 2016 23:59:21 GMT
A xindi is a 11-hole flute. A low pitched 7-hole flute is called a Da-di. Read this wikipedia article: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xindi_(instrument)The xindi is also known as the 11-hole di (十一孔笛). Its design is western influenced and based on the principal of equal temperament. It first appeared in the early 1930s. It was designed and produced by Ding Silin (丁西林1893-1974). Through its 11-hole design, the xindi can play every semitone in the octave perfectly . . . the length and range of the xindi is similar to that of a G key Dà dí (大笛). Although the xindi features significantly in ensemble performance, its use for solo performance is very rare. Due to its complicated fingering and limited range changes, it is often considered a slightly inferior performance instrument in comparison to the dadi or flute. It is mainly valued for its ability to play in semitones, which means it can be used for western style music more easily. However, it is not considered to be the optimal choice because the western flute has a broader range and a tone which complements the other orchestral instruments better. All these reasons contribute to why its use for solo performance is so restricted and rare.
|
|
|
Post by davidmdahl on May 1, 2016 7:25:01 GMT
Apparently, I stand corrected. It confuses me since other sources describing a xindi do not mention 11 holes. I still recommend a qudi for a beginner, for reasons I already explained. I have not myself seen or played a dizi with more than seven holes, but I did once get pwned by a Vietnamese flute with more holes than I was ready for. Back in 2001 I was in a restaurant in Hanoi, and got to talking with the manager. There was a band of musicians playing traditional VN music, and I mentioned that I played the flute. When the band stopped for a break, he handed me the flute played by one of the musicians. I was prepared to impress them all with my playing, but found to my horror that there were more than the six holes I expected. It was pretty embarrassing. Best wishes, David
|
|
|
Post by westernmusician on May 1, 2016 16:29:46 GMT
To answer the question that have been proposed to me, I will explain my self. I like the low ranges of instruments. So I would like to purchase a flute with a low pitch to begin with. Also, I would like to have a fully chromatic flute, that is not western. I really don't care about star trek, so that was a little bit insulting, but I am willing to overlook that question. Furthermore, I am willing to take the challenge of a larger finger stretch. But it might be easier for me by stating that my fingers are pretty long. But, for further clarification, when I asked my original question, I was looking for a url. But besides that, is Eason the only place for me to find a xin di even though I live in the US?
|
|