Sliding the thumb along two strings

[guzhenglover]

Does anyone have any good tips for sliding the thumb along two strings at the same time e.g. in guan shan yue? I am practising doing that, and I understand that I am supposed to be using the first knuckle joint of the thumb as well as the normal position of the nail/flesh bit of the thumb (well half nail, half flesh, and in the middle of the side of the nail). It's just that I am finding the sliding action not as smooth as can be sometimes, as I think somehow either my thumb or the strings aren't "oily" enough. I am also finding it painful if my thumb doesn't slide smoothly (unusally I don't have a problem with sliding the thumb along one string). Someone told me that, if I am sure that I am doing all the right movements and I am still finding sliding a problem, then I could possibly apply some non-alcohol, non-chemical based cream on the thumb/hand - something like Nivea. I also gather that some people are believed to have naturally drier hands than others, while others' hands may be a bit more oily than others...

Oh, the advice I am getting is also never, ever apply talc to the qin or its strings - or anything else unnatural for that matter.

[SCWGuqin]

**At the same time?** That's something that doesn't appear in qin music, barring weird Gong Yi pieces or something. Are you misinterpreting the tablature? GSY features switching between knuckle and nail/flesh, but it's only one at a time!

As for smoothly and firmly pressing with the knuckle, it has to be hardened like any other callus area.

[Si]

This is after the group of quick LUNs if memory serves.

On 7th string you slide up to 7 (i think) using the boney thumb joint, then a lun, then slide down to 7.6 (sorry im at work so cant remember exactly) using the thumb area near the nail. So no, its not keeping 2 strings pressed at the same time.

I think I have had to do this (thumb/2 strings) though on the Ling zhong Yi (dapued by GY) .

It hurts - just grit your teeth and talk in like a man (or a tough women).

Interesting you mentioned this cos I was ready to add a post about the pain involved in sliding and stopping 2 strings with the flattened out ring finger and all the other fingers pressing ontop. That hurts too. I need to do it on my new tune - Xiu qi Yin

[guzhenglover]

You've both got the gist of what I meant, despite my poor description. But sliding the thumb knuckle along a string still hurts. Are you both saying that it's supposed to hurt and it'll come after a callus appears? If that's the way it's got to be, well I guess I'll just have to live with that and try and do like you guys are doing...

[Si]

yes it hurts at first, then you will not notice it.

[Charlie Huang]

I think i discussed this before; you're refering to the youlai zhengzhan di, bu jian you ren huan.

The drier your hands, the smoother you'll slide. To achieve this, wash your hands in warm water for a bit, then towel dry them and wait for a bit. Or, add a *little bit* of talc on the point (not on the strings, obv.).

When sliding on the joint, remember to stick your thumb out to the right and don't slide too fast.

[guzhenglover]

Thanks Charlie. Would you say applying some Nivea cream helps (reluctant as I am putting anything on my hand, let alone for guqin playing)?

[Si]

you need these bits to have hardened skin, so i think using nivea so not a good idea. cos you will soften these bits again.

i could be wrong though......

[Charlie Huang]

NO! DO NOT USE NIVEA OR ANY HAND CREAM!!!

As far as I understand, the cream is sligthy sticky if you apply friction by rubbing it. Also, I think it sticks to the strings and it causes it to have cellotape removal stickiness left behind syndrome, which ruins the strings and you'll have to bin it in the end. Avoid liquids of any kind, coz they can seep inside the coiling of the string and rust the core, turning the string brown.

[SCWGuqin]

Uh...people...don't use hand creams of any kind. You want a callus. Therefore, develop a callus. Friction + pain + pressure + a couple of weeks = a nice hard playing surface. The LAST thing you want to do is moisturize; in general qin-playing hands should be totally dry.