Thinking about first instument

[greentea]

Hey everyone, I have been thinking about getting my first chinese instrument but to tell the truth I dont even know what one I want:P . I first herd the guzheng and i honestly tell in love with it. However making minimum wage and trying to save a bit for school is kinda hard when buying a $450 to start out. I then found out about the erhu. But i cant bow worth crap. Ive tryed a violin before in middle school and i couldnt get the whole bowing thing down for the life of me.

However I found out about different Chinese wind instruments. Such as the dizi, xun, and hulusi. all of which are within my price range for a starting instrument. However i have never really played a flute like instrument besides a recorder i got in elementary school.

I currently play the piano and i did play the saxophone for 3 years. Anyways what is all of your inputs for a first chinese instrument? I was thinking about the hulusi but im not sure yet. I do like the lower more slow paced styles of music.

[davidmdahl]

An answer to your questions could be better done via a conversation over lunch. I don't have time now to properly advise you, so I will throw out a few incompletely thought out ideas.

Learning to play an instrument properly takes several things:
1. Commitment
2. An adequate instrument
3. Access to a teacher or other effective instruction

Commitment implies that you have chosen an instrument and music that you love and will spend the time, effort, and money that it takes to learn. You will need a good enough instrument so that you can enjoy playing it from the very beginning, without having to struggle with problems due to inadequacies of the instrument. A teacher is really very important for learning. Sometimes you can learn a lot by yourself, but getting started with help will save a lot of time and trouble, and will likely make the difference between success and giving up.

My first thought is to recommend an instrument that you can get a teacher for. In most places in the USA, there is no instruction available on Chinese instruments. If your musical experience is limited, and you don't have much money, you might be better served by getting a guitar. At least for a guitar there are teachers everywhere.

A guzheng or zhongruan has the advantage that you can have fun plucking and sound good without much experience. An erhu is a very challenging instrument even with a teacher. It is more portable than a guzheng, but you won't save much money.

Of the winds, the dizi is the most flexible, but if you are not already familiar with playing flutes, it will be a challenge to learn by yourself. I have mentioned Tim Liu's dizi course on this forum, and while it is not cheap and not a replacement for a good teacher, is a good resource for a focused learner. A lot of people play flute, and the techniques are generally similar, so you might be able to get help from a flute teacher even if they don't know Chinese music.

Learning music can get expensive. Some choices will cost more than others. I don't have any proof of it, but I suspect that most instruments that are purchased without any teaching, wind up in the closet. Unless you are really determined, I suggest getting something for which you can arrange lessons. If you are determined to learn a Chinese instrument, you could do worse than a zhongruan or guzheng. At least there are some method books in English for guzheng.

I may rethink what I have written above and change it later. Maybe some others can be more helpful.

Best wishes,

David

[stacote]

I'm new to the world of Chinese instruments as well and I recently purchased a Zhongruan. I've had a lifetime of playing western plucked string instruments so that experience greatly influenced my choice when delving into the Chinese instrument world. I chose something that technically, wasn't too far from what I've spent a good deal of time learning. For me that was plucked string instruments and the Zhongruan naturally fell into place.

I might suggest that you look to your own musical experience to help with your decision. You mention that you play piano and have experience with saxophone so you already have technical ability, physical and mental development with those types of instruments. I'm not familiar enough with the available chinese instruments to know which would fall close to those but others here are and could advise further. I just found that chosing an instrument that made use of what I already know helped a lot. The new technical issues with the Zhongruan are quite minimal and I'm able to focus my attention on learning the musical style and reading the new notation without the frustration of training my fingers to do what they are required to do at the same time.

Just a suggestion.

Davids advice is very good and I couldn't add to it. I'm sure he has more to come as he and the others here were very helpful and patient when I arrived with my questions.

[edcat7]

I've just bought (another) xun, but this time it comes with a tutorial book. Whilst I don't think I'll get to the level of maestro Flo, I'll have fun trying. It looks simple enough to teach yourself.

As David says, commitment is necessary and a teacher is helpful. I'm without a zhongruan/liuqin teacher or more accurately I can't afford his lessons via Skype. So those two instruments are lying forlornly in the living room. One day when I have a change of job without it's ridiculous hours I'll start again.

My dizi/erhu teacher lives far from me and it would be pointless going to see him if I hadn't practised.

I suggested the hulusi but you've got to love it to practise. The hulusi tunes played by the couple of girls on youtube are simple enough (I'm very grateful to Kachilam), all you need is a little help to get you started and understand jianpo. It will take years of tuition and practise to be proficient in the dizi but with only eight lessons on the hulusi I figured out the rest. I have a hulusi book with scores and backing tracks and I don't think I'll ever need tuition on the hulusi again.

[greentea]

I have done a little bit of looking around in my area and the only teacher i could find was one that teaches the guzheng. That being said do you think it would be wise just to save up for a good student guzheng? Or roll the dice and try to self teach myself for a hulusi?

[edcat7]

I like the guzheng alot but for me an instrument has to be portable. Also the high start-up costs to a guzheng is prohibitive. If you start on the guzheng and then find out it's not for you then you've spent a lot of money. Take your time and shop around for a hulusi. My favourite one, which I have used for performances also happens to be my cheapest one.

Over a period of time the biggest cost is tuition and travelling expenses. If you are sure of the instrument you want to learn, then get a good one.

[lbowen]

If you know how to play the sax, guanzi/suona might not be too far off! I totally agree with what the others have said about teachers. Even with one, it took me about 2 months to become fully "comfortable" with the dizi and be able to reach the first 2 octaves with ease. When I had no teacher I struggled to learn a song a month, though there are instructional videos online.

Hulusi or bawu might be better, especially as there are instructional books in english for them.

[davidmdahl]

The choice of instrument really is a personal one. I have had fun blowing on my hulusi, but it is a very limited folk instrument, compared with a guzheng, erhu, zhongruan, or even a dizi. For me anyway, the hulusi could not be my primary instrument. If you check around on Youtube though, you will find some excellent and masterful performances. Obviously for some people the hulusi is the right choice. It might also be a step in the door of Chinese music.

If you have access to a guzheng teacher for even a few lessons once in a while, have space for a guzheng and case, and can swing about $500 for the guzheng itself, that might be a good choice for you. In the context of other musical instruments, especially Western instruments, that is not an outrageous price. Over time, the cost of the instrument is less of a factor than the lessons and the time you put into it.

I suggest listening to lots of Chinese music on a variety of instruments. See what calls to you. It is a false economy to buy an instrument because it is cheap, and then get bored or discouraged and abandon it. You mentioned that you fell in love with the sound of the guzheng. Maybe that is worth saving up for. I don't know if there are other reasons besides cost that make a guzheng a bad choice for you.

You might check with the guzheng teacher you mentioned to see if a guzheng is available to borrow. If not, it might be enough to meet with the teacher for some familiarization with the instrument.

Best wishes,

David

[ziman]

A few factors to consider-

1. Are there particular instruments you really like? You mention guzheng, for example. If you have listened to traditional Chinese music before and are familiar with at least some of the instruments, try to make some sort of ordered list of which instruments you most love. It is, after all, more likely that you will persevere on an instrument you like a lot.

2. Consider the skills you're best and worst at. In my case, for example, I am quite clumsy-fingered and can't strum worth crap. This makes lute-type plucked string instruments (ruan, pipa, liuqin, etc.) quite unsuitable for me. In your case, you mention that you find bowing a particular challenge. Play to your strengths and avoid instruments that require your weakest skills.

3. Consider the difficulty of the instruments themselves. Some instruments are inherently more difficult (e.g. erhu); some have a very extensive and complex repertoire of playing techniques (e.g. pipa, guqin); some are difficult to start out on correctly without guidance (e.g. xiao)

4. Consider the physical form of the instrument and whether it presents any particular inconveniences in the context of your lifestyle/daily routine. For instance, if you travel a lot, large and heavy instruments like the guzheng or yangqin would present challenges.

If you live in high-density housing (e.g. an apartment), loud and/or high-pitched instruments such as the short dizi (bangdi), suona, guanzi, and gaohu would be difficult to practice on without annoying some neighbors. (And the hours during which you can practice become limited as well.)

5. Consider the availability of teachers.
Also, if there are no teachers near you, also consider these additional factors:

(i) Are there people playing similar instruments who might be able to help you? For instance, Western flute players can be helpful for dizi learners; shakuhachi players can be very helpful to a beginner on the xiao (this one was my own experience; I picked up many embouchure-developing exercises from shakuhachi players.); guitar players can be of some help to people learning ruan.

(ii) Are there teachers willing to give online lessons, e.g. via Skype? This is obviously less ideal than face-to-face lessons, but much better than no lessons at all.


A good choice would be an instrument which:
- You like quite a lot and you find satisfying to play;
- Is not extremely difficult for you to play, considering the skills required as well as the overall difficulty of the instrument;
- Can be learned with the teaching resources available to you (whether that is self-learning, finding a teacher, getting players of similar instruments to help you, online lessons, etc.);
- Does not present inordinate hassles given your lifestyle and living arrangements.



Finally, I would like to second David's advice that an adequate instrument is important. The key factor here is consistency of response-- the instrument you buy should be of a high enough quality that it responds consistently throughout its range. For instance, a string instrument should be in tune and not have problems like misaligned frets and bridges. By eliminating instrument problems as much as possible, you can focus on developing correct technique and not be mired in doubts about whether a problem is caused by the instrument or by you.

Naturally, the amount you will need to spend to get an 'adequate instrument' varies greatly between instruments. At the high end are the zithers (guzheng, guqin) where $500 would be barely enough to start out; at the low end are the wind instruments, especially the flutes, where $500 can get you a really, really excellent one. Bear in mind, however, that given proper care and handling, a good instrument can last a lifetime, so in the long run the instrument cost is really less significant than it seems.

[davidmdahl]

Great advice from ziman. My only quibble would be that it is possible to get a good guzheng for $500 (see http://www.chinesezither.net), and possible to get a terrible one at twice that. You only get what you pay for if you know how to choose well. I got a pretty good bamboo flute on the street in Saigon for $1, and one of the worst flutes I have played from an internet seller for over $200. Fortunately the latter was successfully returned for a good dizi.

Your odds of getting a good instrument go up when you can get trustworthy help from a teacher or vendor. Your best advice will likely come from someone who does not have a stake in the transaction, but I have also had good luck dealing with vendors who have good reputations. Some of the worst deals I know of happened when parents of a student brought back an instrument from China, or had one selected by friends or relatives either living in China or travelling there. I think that some music store owners in China treasure the opportunity to dump a bad and expensive instrument on a nonmusician tourist who will soon be leaving the country.

Getting a good instrument is really important for a musician, either beginning or experienced. It is really frustrating to struggle with an inadequate instrument that makes it harder to sound good. Those of use who play Chinese instruments have it great. We don't have to spend thousands of dollars like some do to get a good piano, violin, or flute. You improve chances of sticking with it greatly by getting an instrument that is fun to play and capable of sounding good.