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Post by wenceslas on May 17, 2012 12:54:19 GMT
Greetings to all anyone, any idea how to practices on this piece of music; the double tonguing part. I'm always stuck at 6567 6567 3565 and 3532 3535 3535. Thank you. zhaogepu.com/zongpu/87452.htmlAttachments:
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Post by edcat7 on May 17, 2012 14:03:54 GMT
Hey that's what I'm practising on! What can't you do, double tongueing or just that part?
For the complete beginner say 'to ku to ku' remembering to force the air out with both. The tongue like any muscle takes time to speed up. Even when you aren't playing the dizi eg walking down the street keep saying 'to ku to ku'
With lots of fast short notes I practise bar by bar, and only progress when I have mastered that bar.
Don't rush it, I remember driving 1.5 hrs each way to my teacher's home only to play just 7 notes for over an hour - frustrating for both of us.
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Post by edcat7 on May 17, 2012 14:06:40 GMT
When you've mastered TO KU TO KU (TK TK) then there's TO TO KU (TTK TTK)
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Post by wenceslas on May 17, 2012 14:15:24 GMT
For me its more of tonguing and finger co-ordination; just feels that my finger can't flows smoothly when it come to the two part... I feel that 6567 6567 3565 when change to 6567 6765 3565 then everything flows more smoothly... by the way how fast are you practicing this piece?
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Post by edcat7 on May 17, 2012 14:20:22 GMT
Well, it's not exactly the same piece. I think I can get to a decent speed until I see my teacher do it. When he says TK TK fast it just blurs. He can also roll his tougue, something I thought would be difficult for a Chinese.
My teacher says it's more important that you get all the notes at the same speed slowly before you try to speed up.
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Post by wenceslas on May 17, 2012 14:20:43 GMT
By the way I learnt triple tonguing as TKT... is TTK easier to use?
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Post by wenceslas on May 17, 2012 14:21:59 GMT
Roll tongue? You mean fluttering?
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Post by edcat7 on May 17, 2012 14:49:44 GMT
I haven't yet encountered TKT ....so far only TK and TTK. Yes I mean tongue fluttering, which is something I can't do...yet... but my favourite piece of music, something that made me switch over to the dizi from the hulusi, has loads of.
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Post by wenceslas on May 17, 2012 16:33:30 GMT
I can do fluttering... its something which comes naturally for me. Can't suggest any method to practice that... but you can take a look at this video. www.youtube.com/watch?v=qz8IISHqijk
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Post by edcat7 on May 17, 2012 16:56:44 GMT
Yes, I've seen that before. I still can't do it... but then again I haven't really tried, because I'm not ready for it yet. Do you have a Chinese (music) teacher?
Are they all anal? from spending ages and ages just making spring rolls to spending ages just bowing my erhu or playing the same couple of notes on my liuqin; Chinese teachers seem to want perfection and years of doing the basics. Sometimes I think they take away the fun aspect of learning an instrument.
The hulusi tunes, I taught myself and my teacher polished the rough edges.
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Post by wenceslas on May 17, 2012 17:10:26 GMT
Nope I don't have a formal music teacher. Most of the things are self taught (through books, through websites and forum like this one)... I was in college orchestra before; quit due to too much internal conflicts. Learnt from senior and my orchestra instructor (suona player but well versed in dizi). I know nearly all the playing techniques but my tempo or rhythm is very poor. =) Haha my instructor was different from what you mentioned, but true enough they want perfection. =)
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Post by edcat7 on May 17, 2012 17:27:55 GMT
Your music background enables you to teach yourself. It something I couldn't do. The kitchen was my classroom , hence I swear in Chinese like a trooper If it wasn't for my weeky lessons I would find it difficult to motivate myself to practise.
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Post by edcat7 on May 17, 2012 17:39:37 GMT
This is my dizi/erhu teacher and the zhongruan player is teaching me the liuqin. The tune Gusu Xing is the first full piece he's teaching me and I'm practically kissing his feet! www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dH5ihSTTCc
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Post by wenceslas on May 17, 2012 17:57:15 GMT
The techniques used in this piece isn't alot and the piece isn't the fastest piece that I have come across... Only problem is dizi is the leading instrument in this piece; can't take hint from other insturment =(... hence if I were to play this, I will screw up big time because of my rhythm. haha =)
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Post by phillipr on May 17, 2012 18:45:27 GMT
Ed, I love the video of your teacher playing that tune. However, the video of them playing in the background is distracting because it's so obviously a different piece. I've been working on this tune as well. Haven't yet gotten to the fast part. I've been trying to model my "flowers" and such after recordings of Yu Xunfa playing the same piece.
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Post by edcat7 on May 17, 2012 20:45:53 GMT
Hi Phillip
Glad to hear from you again. Do you have the scores to this tune? I've got a really poor version on a tutorial cd and I've been watching the above link. Also my teacher helps me with it. It's not too hard, though apparently, it's grade 5?
As long as you understand jianpo, have the scores for it you should do ok. My teacher deviates from my scores slightly, he uses a different one.
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Post by Flolei on May 17, 2012 21:04:17 GMT
Hi, Ed! It is true, it is grade 5, but it seems to me very more difficult. It is C dizi with long periods without breathing, if you want it to sound great. It is my plan for this summer in France. There I have a good C dizi, so no need to carry flutes from Slovenia to France (hmm... apart from one, two or three Here is the score. I hope the quality will be good enough. If not, tell me: I will send another one! Good night! Attachments:
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Post by Flolei on May 17, 2012 21:09:23 GMT
I forgot something: I used to use TKT for triolets in Western music, but triolets are quite rare in Chinese traditional music, so I actually use TTK as triple tonguing.
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Post by wenceslas on May 17, 2012 21:12:52 GMT
Hey Flolei, what the different between tukutu and tutuku... both are triple tonguing...
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Post by Flolei on May 17, 2012 21:17:33 GMT
Yes, they are, but in ternary rythm TKT may sound better, more ternary. But maybe I'm wrong, maybe there's another reason.
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Post by wenceslas on May 17, 2012 21:41:49 GMT
edcat7 if flolei's jpg is not clear you can take a look at this www.zhaogepu.com/dixiao/71368.html this is the version which I used to play; not much difference from the one which flolei used. It's the exact same copy from one of the dizi book I have.
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Post by wenceslas on May 17, 2012 21:44:03 GMT
Flolei I think I will try out ttk in one of my practice session. Any suggestions on any pieces which is good for practising triple tonguing?
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Post by edcat7 on May 17, 2012 21:56:09 GMT
Thanks all. My version in my book is slightly different, which I'm sure is slightly different to what my teacher plays. I think I can play it quite well now. My only problem is that I'm a smoker (and a martial artist!) and I need to shorten the gaps at the intervals.
Sticking rigidly to the jianpo is not always a good idea.
ps I drove into Slovenia from Poland and stayed about half an hour.
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Post by edcat7 on May 18, 2012 13:07:15 GMT
Greetings to all anyone, any idea how to practices on this piece of music; the double tonguing part. I'm always stuck at 6567 6567 3565 and 3532 3535 3535. Thank you. zhaogepu.com/zongpu/87452.htmlIs there a link on youtube so I can hear it? At a quick glance I don't think double tongueing is necessary for this piece. Though I may stand corrected. I can get my teacher to play it on Sunday
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Post by phillipr on May 18, 2012 13:23:35 GMT
Hi Ed, The only score for it that I have is the one available on YouTube linked to the following video: www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OBr_nCnaDc&feature=related . Just for fun, here is a video of Yu Xunfa playing the piece: www.youtube.com/watch?v=AB39x53-_ec . He plays it a little faster here than on the album I have. Since I learned to play Irish music mostly by ear, I'm following my usual method of learning here. I use the jianpu mostly as a reference, simply to get the notes down. But in general I try to simply listen closely and imitate what I hear. Incidentally, Tim Liu says that this was the traditional method of learning in China, I presume prior to the establishment of conservatories of music. Cheers!
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