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Post by klara on Mar 4, 2012 20:12:32 GMT
Hello everyone, I would like to purchase this dizi in low G: www.shoppingchinanow.com/shop/maestro-dizi-flute.html but I wanted to check first if anyone has any experience with shoppingchinanow.com. Are they reliable, are their products what they claim them to be? And what is your opinion about this dizi? Thank you! |
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Post by edcat7 on Mar 5, 2012 0:13:20 GMT
Flolei has bought dizis from shoppingchinanow and found them to be good. I bought an erhu from them, received 4 days after payment.
On reflection, my erhu is good value and is sounding better with each play.
I would always pay using paypal since you have a degree of customer protection.
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Post by Flolei on Mar 5, 2012 7:36:09 GMT
Yes, I confirm I was very satisdied with this experience. I don't know if this quite expensive flute is really a good value, but I'm very satisfied with the two flutes I bought from this website. The seller is very reliable and answer to all questions. Instruments are a very good value. Both came less than one week after payement with Paypal. It seems that the transporter is very good, even if the shipping costs aren't too high.
Only problem: you have to make sure that he ships intruments to your country. Shipping is really quick and save, but there're many exclusions (for example, you can't get the instrument in Slovenia).
I think you can buy with confidence.
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Post by xindi on Mar 5, 2012 23:29:52 GMT
Hi Klara, I've never bought a dizi on the internet ... I suppose I'm risk averse, and I tend to annoy shopkeepers more, by trying every single one in the shop. Since bamboo varies in nature, no two flutes will be identical (low G dizi can vary in length by several centimetres). About the flute you've seen - 1). the image shows a flute constructed by two different bamboo tone pieces between the tenon: no doubt they could not get a single bamboo length. Do you know if you wish for a single or double piece? 2). I can't read chinese, so I can't tell who the maker is - but this is a very standard design - note that the dimo hole is on the same side as the fingering. On all of my better dizi flutes, the dimo hole is on the same side as the embouchure blow hole: I (naively?) assume this shows better forethought, since the dimo hole placement, if further from the embouchure hole, can be smaller and less problematic. Equally, it is not as vibrant or as loud, as placed nearer, on the same side as the blow hole. If you get a tenon joint, then with this flute design, the dimo hole, will be displaced further away from the blow hole, as you stretch to find your tuning. 3). This model looks heavily lacquered or varnished, and also bound, to prevent cracking. The purple bamboo types I've seen, often benefit from a varnish or lacquer treatment. 4. In image 6 - look how far, the left ring finger has to reach, compared to the other two left fingers. You might have to do a scale-ratio, and work out whether this is going to be comfortable fingering for you. All in all, for US$144, it's probably going to be a decent dizi, but average value, rather than great value. Perhaps if the seller can tell you the manufacturer, it will make things clearer. Hard to say without blowing, but if it was me, I'd rather go for a Chang flute, not supervised by some trainee, but a proper one. I appreciate it's tricky to know where else to get these. One reason why I'm not so keen on the commercialised 'build your own flute' from all these different options x, y, z, is that I've discovered that most of the flutes I love, are made specifically in types of bamboo, in only certain keys - because the flute maker has more experience, or quality control in those specific ones. Flutemakers who can create any key of flute, in any material; with any variable, are more likely doing it on machine order. Far from it, some jack of all trades are very good and offer good stuff. As I said ... I'm risk averse - the seller is reliable, and the stuff is good (but if you travel to China, stuff is often better albeit obscure  ) Good luck! |
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Post by klara on Mar 8, 2012 8:41:17 GMT
I would like to thank you all for your time and and effort you made to answer! It has been helpful :-)
Xindi, I owe you a special one, since you had a look on the dizi and went into details. I guess I will go with the double piece only because of practical reasons (if I had to take it on the plane). I am no expert when it comes to dizis, I can play a bit but the last flute I bought is of a poor quality and I get discouraged every time I touch it. So I thought I would invest some money into a better one..
And I was thinking about going to China this summer and buying a dizi on the occasion but I don't know if the trip happens for sure..
Once again, THANK YOU ALL! :-)
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Post by xindi on Mar 8, 2012 21:14:40 GMT
Hi Flolei, if you can wait till summer...you will have a great choice in China! It's very discouraging playing a poorly made flute - definitely worthwhile getting a good quality one. Low G's are harder to make (bamboo length; tuning accuracy and general workmanship) than shorter bangdi. So they are proportionally more expensive. Here's mine:  I can't believe it hasn't cracked! I love it. Then again, mine is purple bamboo, and has just a lustre oil rubbed finish (doesn't crack as fast as bitter bamboo!). I was back in China this year, and I found that all of the Chang low G flutes had 'cheapened' in quality compared to mine. They didn't have the same quality of workmanship or decorations. Most importantly they sounded less exciting, but were very affordable at around US$100 equivalent - none of the springy sonorous singing quality. The dimo hole + embouchure hole on the same side of the tenon is generally better:  This dimo brand is very poor .. I don't find it much good compared to the better makes by the Zhuhui company (but they have had a shortage of production this year!  ) If you wish to get a decent one, Henry Wang of Datungarts [also under Datungmusic on the Ebay] store can order in decent low G dizi flutes and test them. He's a fabulous guanzi player, but knows enough about dizi flutes to make sure you're happy. I can't see he has any in store at the moment. Sometimes sellers go to the Shanghai Expo in autumn to pick up supplies; others have regular suppliers. The Eason store low G concert flutes are also safe re: quality. Still, it's much more fun, trying out different flutes to find just that magic one for you. That makes it so much more special too. I play classical flute mostly, so I was intrigued by the dizi - I'm still not very good at it, but it gives me great pleasure. Playing it that is (rather than being not very good  ) |
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Post by Flolei on Mar 8, 2012 21:54:33 GMT
Hi, Xindi!
I guess your interesting message was for Klara...!
Mmm... anyway, beautiful black bamboo dizi!
With best regards,
Flolei
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Post by xindi on Mar 8, 2012 21:59:48 GMT
Hi Flolei, lol ...everyone's welcome Thanks - look how long it is compared to the sofa! I have to be careful not to poke anyone's eyes out! One day I'll *finally* understand how to make a recording to show you how it sounds! |
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Post by Flolei on Mar 9, 2012 10:12:08 GMT
Hi, Xindi,
Yes, I would really like to hear it, to hear how sounds black bamboo.
I forgot to ask you what you mean exactly when you write:
"note that the dimo hole is on the same side as the fingering. On all of my better dizi flutes, the dimo hole is on the same side as the embouchure blow hole: I (naively?) assume this shows better forethought, since the dimo hole placement, if further from the embouchure hole, can be smaller and less problematic."
The DXH flutes have the dimo with finger-holes. I didn't notice a adequation between quality and the place of the dimo.
So, what do you like better? Sorry, my English isn't very good, therefore I didn't understand well!
Have a nice day!
Flolei
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Post by klara on Mar 9, 2012 17:53:06 GMT
Hi Xindi,
thanks for the message (addressed to Flolei :-) ). I would love to go backpacking throughout China but there's also a chance I'll have to move on account of a new job.. That's why the trip may not happen and I'm looking for a dizi on the Internet (I'm living in France now and there's no chance of getting this instrument here :-( )
I've had a look at Datungmusic and like you said, they don't have any Low G dizi at the moment but I've sent them an email and asked about its availability. Anyways, they seem to offer only dizis made of rosewood or sandalwood.
Do you have any experience with these kinds of wood?? It has to sound differently, doesn't it? What about the quality? To be honest, I was almost sure about buying the dizi I'd asked you about, but the more I talk to you, the more I'm insecure!
P.S.: The purple bamboo dizi looks gorgeous! Could you post a pict of the black one too? The color looks really interesting..
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Post by xindi on Mar 10, 2012 14:19:29 GMT
Hi Flolei & Klara oops....the perils of posting messages via a smartphone ... the screen becomes confusing! Sorry! I'll reply all at once...! "note that the dimo hole is on the same side as the fingering. On all of my better dizi flutes, the dimo hole is on the same side as the embouchure blow hole: I (naively?) assume this shows better forethought, since the dimo hole placement, if further from the embouchure hole, can be smaller and less problematic." Flolei - I discovered this late on, after owning a number of flutes. For some reason, all of the dimo membranes closer to the embouchure hole, produced a louder and richer volume. I thought I was imagining this, but when I went through my Imelda Marcos (v.2) collection of dizi flutes, I discovered that all my favourites were designed [embouchure + di mo hole] on same side. This is louder/higher volume. In contrast, the [di mo hole + fingering holes] seems more gentle in volume, or softer nuances are possible. One of our forum members informed me of a paper on the Duffing-Oscillator principle which identifies high frequency harmonics being a function of the shorter membrane flutes. Using this principle, I reason as follows: If the di mo membrane is closer to the embouchure hole, the air travels from embouchure ----> di mo membrane is a shorter distance. Therefore, the air speed is faster when it hits the di mo membrane. If the air speed arriving at the di mo membrane is faster, it vibrates the di mo membrane at a greater frequency: so is easier to produce the 'high volume buzz' associated with the dizi flute [also known as high frequency harmonics]. So techniques like flutter tonguing are possible, but need high air speed. At the opposite end, in low bass U tube dizi flutes, there is very very little 'buzz' from the di mo membrane - the air speed is too slow, because the bass flutes have wide bores and designs put the di mo membranes very far from the embouchure hole. No matter how 'fast' the dizi is air blown, the air will be too slow, so it is not possible to vibrate the di mo membrane as in shorter flutes. In contrast, if the dimo hole was positioned after the end of the fingerholes, the air speed would slow drastically (and, the di mo membrane would only work for some notes, due to some fingers being covered). So 'concert' flutes, which require volume (rather than soft gradations of tone), may be more likely to work better by the di mo + embouchure being on the same side. I could be wrong, but using this principle, it has helped me understand why these ones are favourites of mine:  It is an E pitch: very very loud! Klara - I think this might be sandalwood, but I couldn't understand what the shopkeeper called it. It is not rosewood - I have a rosewood version by the same maker, and the rosewood is much lighter. Maybe someone can read the chinese?   In any case, this manufacturer, is one of the more famous dizi makers specialising in hardwoods (not bamboo). Personally, I love their rosewoods and darkwood dizi - but they do not make them in low G as far as I know. They are quite expensive by China/Hong Kong standards. Henry Wang sells them (in fact, ask Edcat! He has one, or two or three lol). I think I love the darkwood dizi more than Edcat: the embouchure has a higher 'resistance' when blowing, so the technique is slightly different (not much). When you blow, it is not as 'freeblowing' or easy blowing, as a bamboo. It takes more air to blow a hardwood flute like rosewood or sandalwood: but the tones are magnificent. Here is a Bao dizi flute - di mo + fingerholes on the same side:   Note the professional red tassle It is very smooth in tone .. less 'bright'. With the [di mo + finger holes] on the same side, the dizi head is also shorter, so that can offset balance, for longer flutes. The main reason I started to move towards hardwood like sandalwood, is because I cracked too many bamboo flutes playing outdoors in Europe Hardwoods like sandalwood will last for much longer! I wonder if you put my English in Googletranslate or Babelfish, would it make more sense lol. Flolei - I am hopeless at following up targets (like playing the dizi for fun) but I'll try and get some recordings done on the purple bamboo flute! ___________ Klara - about shoppingchinanow.com - I didn't mean to make you feel insecure about it. I am just that way!!  This one is a cheaper hardwood one. It is good quality, but not as ggreat as the one above (this one only cost around US$75 in China: The major difference between bamboo vs hardwood .... I find bamboo is 'brighter' or louder. Hardwoods tend to be richer, and deeper; need more air to blow; last longer, don't crack. Colour: be careful you are not just buying a 'stained' wood flute. Black dizi flutes are tricky: they can disguise flame-dried kiln wood (brittle, horrible sound). I do like sandalwood a lot, but it might be a protected species (any import problems in France?) Backpacking in China is fantastic...I have to say, it is my favourite destination with so many micro-cultures within. Do you know which make your first dizi is? If it is truly terrible, then I think any of the famous makers will make you happy - like Xie Bin's flutes from Eason Music (they do have a low G in stock - and they have some of the famous DXH ones in sometimes ) |
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Post by edcat7 on Mar 10, 2012 20:36:07 GMT
The black dizi is made from ebony. A set of 7 was once on sale on ebay, but I couldn't afford to take the risk.
Xindi is luckly to spend hours choosing one from China/HK. My teacher hates my rosewood dizis bought over the internet.
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Post by klara on Mar 16, 2012 14:14:30 GMT
That's what I call a comprehensive answer :-) I have no idea where to start with my answer.. Your dizis look really great and the professional red tassel.. a cherry on the top ;-)
I need to thank you a lot, because on account of your post(s), I've become interested in rosewood dizis and I'm almost sure I'll buy one from Datungarts.. Or could you recommend any other online shop that sells rosewood/sandalwood dizis? They're hard to find on the Internet..
I haven't tried translating your text with any translator yet but as far as I'm concerned, everything you wrote is pretty understandable ;-) I could try it though, maybe into French, just for fun ;-)
And my dizi is one of the cheapest one you can find, not even sure that someone would like to have his own signature on it... So yes, I'm definitely looking forward to having a great one (which in my case would be almost any dizi ;-) ). Still, I don't want to leave it to chance and I prefer investing a bit..
And I don't think there should be any problems with the import of sandalwood flute.. However, red tape here is notorious and truly unbelievable, so who knows ;-)
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Post by Flolei on Mar 18, 2012 8:58:15 GMT
Hello, Xindi! You wrote: "I discovered this late on, after owning a number of flutes. For some reason, all of the dimo membranes closer to the embouchure hole, produced a louder and richer volume. I thought I was imagining this, but when I went through my Imelda Marcos (v.2) collection of dizi flutes, I discovered that all my favourites were designed [embouchure + di mo hole] on same side." Yes, I think you're right: the distance between blowing and dimo holes takes a big role in the loundness of the instrument. But I didn't notice that the distance is bigger when the tenon is between holes. On the picture you can see 2 loud dizis. On the top - D dizi, below - E dizi. The distance is a little larger on the D dizi, which is normal because the flute is also a little longer. I don't think it is because of the place of the tenon (the distance could be less large too). Other elements take a place in the loudness of the instrument: the form and the size of the blow hole (in both case the hole is quite big) and the thickness of the body. I cannot determinate if the size of the dimo hole is important or not. My low Bb dizi, for example, has a very small dimo hole, which- however - "buzzes" very well. Have a nice Sunday, Flolei Attachments:
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Post by xindi on Mar 19, 2012 21:27:28 GMT
That's what I call a comprehensive answer :-) I have no idea where to start with my answer.. Your dizis look really great and the professional red tassel.. a cherry on the top ;-) I need to thank you a lot, because on account of your post(s), I've become interested in rosewood dizis and I'm almost sure I'll buy one from Datungarts.. Or could you recommend any other online shop that sells rosewood/sandalwood dizis? They're hard to find on the Internet.. I haven't tried translating your text with any translator yet but as far as I'm concerned, everything you wrote is pretty understandable ;-) I could try it though, maybe into French, just for fun ;-) And my dizi is one of the cheapest one you can find, not even sure that someone would like to have his own signature on it... So yes, I'm definitely looking forward to having a great one (which in my case would be almost any dizi ;-) ). Still, I don't want to leave it to chance and I prefer investing a bit.. And I don't think there should be any problems with the import of sandalwood flute.. However, red tape here is notorious and truly unbelievable, so who knows ;-) Hi Klara, It's always exciting getting your first proper flute....it's just a bit of a challenge making an informed decision over the internet, instead of testing them. I like Henry's flutes - the rosewood has a strong deep powerful tone - but the embouchure style needs to be developed to make the best of it. I like rosewood and ebony more, mostly for the lack of cracking potential! Will you start off with a standard alto D key rosewood flute? The website you linked, the shoppingchinanow.com and the chinapresentation site, both seem a bit more expensive (overheads perhaps?) than Datungarts - perhaps because they are a larger organisation. Between them and Eason Music in Singapore, the only other option would be to write to a few stores, and see if they might sell them. If you write chinese, I could give you a few addresses....but I can't write chinese, so trying to get the address out is going to be tricky lol. The cost of Henry's rosewood ones are very good, especially if you try an offer on Ask him to test it for you before posting it too. He plays flute, so he can upload a sample on the exact flute you're interested in) not that I'm trying to give him loads of work! Between these four internet retailers, I can't recall anyone getting real duds for the quality of flute, which the retailers have not made better. Ou est-ce que vous habitez dans l'Hexagone? (Lorient proche, a beaucoup de luthieres formidables.....!) Soyez la bienvenue |
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Post by xindi on Mar 19, 2012 21:50:10 GMT
Hello, Xindi! Hi Flolei, I see what you mean..... In your images - low D flute has a wider bore ....this will reduce air speed relative to where the dimo is produced, but it's very hard to compare, unless you have two in the same key. Here, the top D key dizi is a rosewood. The lower D key, is a bamboo Bao dizi (one of my best!!!). The price difference is around 3x more for the Bao flute. Same sounding length for both dizi flutes:  With the tenon joint closed completely, you can see the dimo hole-->embouchure distance is much longer for the Bao bamboo flute.  They are both approximately the same thickness: the rosewood (top) is much shorter in the distance between dimo hole --> embouchure: this is before the Bao bamboo (lower) is even 'corrected' for tuning, which requires pulling out about 0.5cm, for A=440Hz tuning. The rosewood dizi is more powerful and louder in volume: it is deafening! The Bao flute is very loud too, but more subtle and has tremendous tonal control. It buzzes, but nowhere near as much as the rosewood (top) dizi. I know a lot of variables that control the volume: 1. material density of the dizi as you've pointed out (bamboo is unique - it tends to be very loud naturally due to its nature! Ebony is thicker....harder to machine, sometimes finished poorly on the inside!) 2. wall thickness (thin wall vs thick wall: thin walls can be very amplifying, whereas thick walls can deaden or 'darken' the tone') 3. Size of embouchure hole: 'oval' is less bright and projecting, than 'rectangular' which is more easy blowing and bright and responsive'. 4. Size of fingering holes: the larger the holes, the more the air escape, which makes for a louder volume too. The vent holes might be important too. 5. Dimo application: ribbing the dimo membrane really amplifies (the membrane then vibrates more freely). etc.... Still...for all the D key dizis I have, it's important to note that some people will not want the loudest volume dizi - a subtlely refined tonally athletic dizi like the Bao is very sonorous...but for outdoor playing, I like blasting my eardrums with the rosewood or ebony ones PS I gave away some of my double flutes (in the same keys) and the recipients loved them regardless of the dimo hole position! Kind regards, Xindi |
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