Chinese vs. American Conservatories

[phillipr]

So I've been wondering how similar the flute training is between Chinese and American conservatories. I guess what I'm wondering is whether or not I could build up a dizi practice session along the lines of those used by professional silver flutists. Perhaps even incorporating some of the techniques/fingerings/exercises recommended for baroque one-key flute playing. Any thoughts?

[davidmdahl]

Beyond the basics of holding and blowing the dizi, the Boehm (silver) flute and traverso (Baroque flute) techniques are quite different from that useful for Chinese music on the dizi. Exercises for Boehm flute assume that you are using an instrument capable of playing in all keys. Likewise the traverso is played in different keys by cross-fingering, in ways that are not available on a dizi.

The usual scales and arpeggios practiced for hours on end by flutists are good preparation for Western classical music, but I don't think the patterns are as useful for Chinese music, although some scale practicing should be a part of dizi studies. I would expect that there are some good dizi method books with exercises. These will be more appropriate for practicing on dizi.

My $.02.

Best wishes,

David

[phillipr]

Thanks, David. My problem is that, apart from Tim Liu's book, I don't have access to any dizi method books. And even if I did, I don't read any Mandarin. So I'm just taking stabs in the dark for forming a practice session that is well targeted at improving my weakness, instructing my ignorance, and promoting my natural abilities. Do you know of any fingering sheets that demonstrate all the different keys in which it is possible to play on a dizi?

[edcat7]

Sorry Phillip

I haven't forgotten, but slow. I photocopied 1 book. will do another. Can't do it when my boss is around

[phillipr]

No worries, Ed. I didn't realize you were photocopying method books. I thought they were tune books. Which ever they are, I am immensely grateful.

As a sort of follow up question. How does everybody on here go about their practice time. Do you have exercises such as scales, arpeggios and the like, or do you jus play the melodies. Also, how do you master the different forms of ornamentation?

[davidmdahl]

Sorry phyllipr, I don't have any dizi method books to recommend, just some tune books that start out pretty challenging. I probably have more for Vietnamese flute (sao) than dizi. I still think that a good method book is your best bet, post Tim Liu's book. The kind of method book I like is one that intersperses tunes and exercises where the exercises focus attention on the technical challenges in the tunes.

Practicing scales, octaves, and arpeggios may be very helpful in a basic way for exercising your fingers, breath control, and embouchure, but that doesn't really help in a direct sense for Chinese tunes.

Chinese music has its own patterns that you can either learn with the aid of a method book, or simply practicing the tunes. You can learn a lot by creating your own exercises from trouble spots in a tune you like. This works for any style, including Irish tunes. <g>

I share your language handicap, but providing you are resourceful and can get by with jianpu, you can still learn a lot from a method. If you can't find one by other means, maybe Sung Wah at Eason can get one of his dizi teachers or colleagues to recommend a good method book.

Best wishes,

David

[xindi]

Jan 12, 2012 3:57:38 GMT phillipr said:

So I've been wondering how similar the flute training is between Chinese and American conservatories. I guess what I'm wondering is whether or not I could build up a dizi practice session along the lines of those used by professional silver flutists. Perhaps even incorporating some of the techniques/fingerings/exercises recommended for baroque one-key flute playing. Any thoughts?

ki i
From what I can gather, the fundamental difference I discern being in the Far East now isn.t so much the language handicap, but the foundation in Jian Pu rather than stave music. It might not seem like a huge transition, but teachers in conservatories use the doh ray me so la te doh, convention to refer to notes, rather than 1, 2,3 or G, B etc.

The repertoire is very different....as are the drills. Having had a number of tutors for a few instruments, the majority I've had are didactic and a little rote. The younger tutors are familiar with the Suzuki method. Jian pu being a sliding scale, you can play solo (out of key) for any instrument and octave flip unreachable notes.

Teaching methods aside, the dizi is strongly diatonic so in a key of D, you will find G key tunes okay, and other semitones weak. The only way around it is to have a collection, of dizi flutes, a bit like a set of Irish whistles.

I don't think Im very disciplined with exercise books. They don't stimulate me and I feel like I'm working on my tax, returns rather than enjoying. Of course I do drills like, octave leaps, slurring tonguing and phrasing exercises but around a piece of music Im trying to play.

Few of us have Language, proficiency here sadly :-(

[edcat7]

Jan 12, 2012 6:09:19 GMT phillipr said:

No worries, Ed. I didn't realize you were photocopying method books. I thought they were tune books. Which ever they are, I am immensely grateful.

As a sort of follow up question. How does everybody on here go about their practice time. Do you have exercises such as scales, arpeggios and the like, or do you jus play the melodies. Also, how do you master the different forms of ornamentation?

I do the set drills in the book and then play the short pieces. I have another book which consists solely of drills. It's an excellent book but I don't spend too much time on it solely because my teacher is not testing me on it.

Carl.x mentioned he spent 2-3 years doing set exercises and drills on the erhu before he played his first tune ' Racing horses'. My teacher is slightly better but he won't allow me to go the next step unless I'm profficient on my present exercise.

Since I don't want a wasted journey and a wasted lesson I spend hours on my drills. I have litterally spent days on 3 or 4 bars of music.

Not being able to read Chinese is a disadvantage, the piece I'm currently on now is played gently and quietly in such as such style. Something I would never had known solely by reading the jianpo.

I suppose paying for tuition is an incentive to practise. I would be less motivated if I had no-one to prod and guide me.

[phillipr]

Ed,

I never really had formal lessons on Irish flute, and obviously don't have formal lessons on dizi. My motivator was competition. At the Midwest Fleadh Cheoil here in the U.S. there was one particular flute player that I really wanted to beat. I figured if I could beat him then I'd be a good flute player. After about four years of competing I did in fact beat him. I still don't feel like a good flute player though.

I don't know whether or not drills will actually help me, but in the absence of a teacher I'm willing to give them a try. I'm thinking they might also help me to learn jianpu better as well.

[sanmenxia]

There's been quite few threads where how to get hold of books has been mentioned. These books are easily available in China, obviously, as you would expect, that's where they come from!

[Flolei]

To answer to Philip's question and describe from my experience the differences between practising Western flute and Chinese dizi I would firstly say that it is really impossible to use Western books to practise dizi. For this I see two reasons:
1. Chinese dizi is mainly a diatonical instrument; even if you can play with it almost all kinds of music and all half-tones, it isn’t its main function;
2. Chinese traditional music is mainly based on pentatonic scales or modes; therefore the exercises and scales from the Western books are inappropriate – to the flute and to the Chinese music.

I practise the dizi about one hour five days a week. It isn’t a lot, so I have to organize my time and try to be efficient. At the same time, playing the dizi is a hobby, so it must still be a pleasure, away to express myself far from our big cruel world…
Personally, I use three ways of practising:
1. I do some exercises from the Chinese books I bought from Sogoeo (for example, the first book of this tutorial: www.sogoeo.com/chinese-flute-tutorial-p-6568.html) . The patterns they propose to practise are useful for many pieces and allows an efficient and pleasant warming up;
2. I “build” my own exercises around the piece(s) I’m working on. I try to target the main difficult patterns in the piece and improvise around them;
3. I play the pieces I’m working on – one piece for each flute, but never more than 3 pieces in the same period.

[edcat7]

I think essentially Chinese teach differently to Westerners in all respects other than music.

Going through the text book is fine but I find I play only the set exercises. It would be nice to play the complete tune rather than bits of it.

Phillip's observation that learning is a large part listening is very true.

[Flolei]

Of course, it is true that listening to great players and watch at them on videos (when it is possible to see their hands) takes a very big part in learning, especially for people who have to learn alone, without a dizi teacher (it is my situation).

But after that, we have to practise and practise and practise... In this case it is quite important to organize the time and the learning process to progress in all skills regulary.

[edcat7]

Yes time is important. At a beginner's level half an hour each day would suffice. But as the level of difficulty increases so must the time spent on practice.

But the the time-frame in which you want to achieve your goals is also a factor: in 5 years I want my dizi playing to be more than good, my liuqin good, my zhongruan passable and my erhu adequate.

However because of not wishing to disturb my whole house and neighbours the instrument I can most practice on is the erhu with the mute on.

[phillipr]

Thanks, everyone, for your input. I guess I'm just going to have to construct a practice session that works for me. Sadly I haven't had the time to practice that I would like. Between taking care of my daughter and new-born son, the holidays, and job hunting, I've hardly had enough time to maintain my Irish music. Since my wife doesn't like it when I play dizi I try not to practice when she's around. Which means I'm not getting any practice time right now since she's still on maternity leave.

[edcat7]

Yes, we are fortunate to have the luxury to learn/play exotic instruments. The world economy as it is i'll be looking to busk in my retirement.

The books I've copied for you would be perfect if you ever decide to teach the dizi.