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Post by sanmenxia on Jan 31, 2012 15:57:43 GMT
Maybe write a Wikibook?
As long as you rewrite copyrighted material in your own words and acknowledge its source you're not infringing any copyright. It's quite easy to come up with exercises so that shouldn't be a problem either.
For tunes, you could choose traditional pieces that don't have a composer.
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Post by phillipr on Jan 31, 2012 20:05:01 GMT
Very interesting topic. I didn't know, for example, that the price of lessons depends on the playing level. Leaf through Chinese books and tutorials about dizi playing isn’t only useful for players, it also says a lot about how Chinese musicians look at their own music. Therefore I bought – from Sogoeo – this book: www.sogoeo.com/dizi-exam-pieces-110-grading-music-sheet-p-6601.html, which is actually an anthology of exams pieces for all levels (from the 1st to the 10th). It seems that the following criterias play an important role in the classification of pieces into the different levels: - the length of the piece; - the combination of slow parts (in which the intonation, breathing, vibrato and expressiveness are very important) and the quick ones (in which the finger dexterity and the accurate tonguing play the main role); - the length of the flute (all the pieces for low pitched dizis are in the highest categories (for example, “The Flying partridge” is in the 9th category probably partly because it is written for Bb dizi); - the complexity of ornamentation (for example, “The New song of the Herdsmen” is in the 7th category probably because we can notice in it all kinds of ornaments). If the first two points are actually also relevant for Western flute music, the last two seem to be very characteristic for Chinese music. Because of that it is sometimes difficult to be sure in which level one piece will be classified. Thanks for this, Flolei. That's pretty much the information I was looking for.
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Post by phillipr on Jan 31, 2012 20:07:19 GMT
[quote author=xindi board=Wind thread=1501 post=13341 time=1327871090 If we all uploaded a single page (each), we could probably create an internet resource for newbies to start and work out how to play dizi up levels, without violating any copyright issues. [/quote]
I love this idea, Xindi!!!
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Post by phillipr on Jan 31, 2012 20:10:22 GMT
With all this talk of starting an open-source dizi website, I'm getting rather excited. I'll be happy to help out in any way that I can. Perhaps somehow we can use my years of experience in teaching Irish flute and apply some general principals to Dizi (and xiao for that matter).
Seriously, if there is any way that I can contribute, I'd love to be a part of it!!!
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Post by edcat7 on Jan 31, 2012 23:59:38 GMT
Since Carl.x is knowledgable in obtaining music scores, it seems to me all it has to be done is ask him.
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Post by xindi on Feb 1, 2012 21:22:29 GMT
Wow. Where do we begin then?! My brain is full ...going to have to figure out what it takes to think this through. I'm so scatty at the moment. I've mislaid a pipa nail.
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Post by phillipr on Feb 2, 2012 16:17:43 GMT
When I first started learning the tin whistle from a book and tapes, the instructor began with some basic comments on the whistle, then demonstrated a "D" scale, followed by a very simple tune in the same key. Afterwards he moved on to a "G" scale, again followed by a simple tune in the same key. He continued this way through the scales most commonly used in Irish music, with the tunes gradually increasing in difficulty.
I'd suggest we start with something similar. We could work our way through the scales as taught and played on the Dizi, perhaps using the "graded" books as a point of reference for modeling our own guide. As we work our way through the scales we could give a few simple to moderate tunes for practice in each scale (say three tunes of increasing difficulty per scale). We could also gradually introduce the various forms of ornamentation (or flowers, as Tim Liu calls them), providing a few exercises and a couple of melodies to demonstrate and practice each new ornament. Again this would be done in increasing level of difficulty.
My own personal preference would be to also provide some historical background to the dizi, as well as some historical and cultural background to Chinese music in general, as we progress through the "program." This could be my own obsessive nature, though. Usually when I'm interested in something I feel compelled to learn everything about it, including background and development, cultural context, etc. I end up with a wealth of knowledge that no one really cares about.
We could also post videos demonstrating the different techniques and tunes in such a way that folks could both listen to get an understanding of what things are supposed to sound like, and practice along. I would be willing to do a few simple videos, but I'd suggest we each take a turn at embarrassing ourselves. ;D
Oooo... perhaps we could also construct a melody archive and a spot for videos and/or MP3s of our favorite dizi performances.
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Post by xindi on Feb 2, 2012 21:12:35 GMT
Right! [Thinking Cap On] This is going to take some time trying to reply to all the great points everyone's made. I'll try and make it clear to follow this post by indicating which threads I'm replying to... Hi, Xindi! Yes, I agree with all you wrote. We could have ressources for Western beginners. We could give the both versions - jianpu in western notation. All this, of course, if the president and moderator think that it is a good idea to work on such a project and if we find enough colleagues to work with us. Good night, Flolei
That's a good point Flolei - I'm bilingual (but sadly not in Mandarin!) and find I prefer knowing both systems (western 5 stave) and Jian Pu. I know some people don't feel this way, as Jian Pu can seem daunting, until the key to unlocking its simplicity becomes apparent. It does give a learner, a choice as to which system to learn, and maybe, pick up the relationship between both Jian Pu and Stave music, so that the two systems become easier.
Does anyone have software to re-write music in Stave or Jian Pu? Otherwise, I fear my scribbled notation will be indecipherable....[/i] Those are all important considerations David - thanks!
Considerations I don't have a clue about sadly:D
What would be an ideal server to upload the pages? I did a Googlegroup once.. I liked those, since anyone contributing could modify and rework/improve entries, rather than needing intensive moderator input to sort out.
It sounds like it would be a safer bet, to use either original material, than risk plagiarism or copyright violations?
I'm not clear, but I wondered whether quoting and referencing 4 lines from a book, was within copyright laws. When I think of Trevor Wye's Flute Method books, he refers to a publisher, who refused to allow reproduction of a single line of music, to demonstrate a practice technique.
...clearly some more thinking to do on this ...keep the thoughts coming! Thanks
I've no experience writing a Wikibook - anyone?
I don't think this copyright bit would be a problem; I can't read chinese, so I would literally contribute to a primer, by writing from what I know from experience. I have no translated chinese manual/book source, so I wouldn't even know how to read the chinese.
The challenge ... is with the scores. I understand what you say, about traditional pieces, which are copyright exempt, as there is no attributable composer. This sounds ideal.
Some scores, which do have a composer, which has seen their copyright expire after 60 years, retain a copyright, if a specific version of the score is used. For example - Marcel Moyse's version of Bach's Partita in A Minor is still under copyright, even though Bach died centuries ago. But in any case, this would only apply to higher level dizi music.
Okay...we may have to check and see how many exercises we can come up with then...[/i] Hey fantastic! What do we do next master shi-fu?!
That sounds like an interesting idea. My concern is that the dizi, is a particular instrument, and needs some attention to the mechanism of the di mo application ... the very thing that makes its unique sound. From your ideas, I was thinking along an idea of:
1. Introduction to the dizi [Historical, anatomical] 2. Method of holding/fingering [positioning; finger scales] 3. Introduction to Jian Pu (with fingering scales) 4. Scale exercises...hmmm....I'm not sure how useful these exercises are on the dizi. Anyone? 5. Embouchure and blowing technique [Simple blowing/fingering] 6. Grade 1 Exercises and Pieces [including 'How not to suck at playing rhythm!' ] 7. Grade 2 [Exercises and Pieces] i.e. introduction to decorations.
.... ....
Index: Translation of Jian Pu symbols
or something like this? :confused:
Not sure about calling 'decorations' = 'flowers'. Something gets lost in translation. In guzheng and pipa playing, 'flower' is a specific (friggin' difficult in pipa!) technique, and has its own * sign, to indicate it. Jonathan Stock (the professor who did the 'translation' of Purple Bamboo Melody into 5 stave music, refers to the chinese decorations as 'grace notes', as others do.
Loosely, in western culture, the idea of a flower is indeed decorative; in music, it is very specific such as in guzheng 'flower' would be something between a glissando technique and an arpeggio technique, indicated by a *--- and sometimes by arrows going ---> up and down between notes.
One of the difficulties of me writing any of this, is that my English is derived from my training in aesthetics and fine art, so I tend to be rather wordy and difficult to understand, for anyone who wants straightforward English.
Maybe someone can volunteer for this?
In any case, I guess I tend to take the view that it's better just to write a few pages (with examples and hyperlinks as you've suggested, to video clips or sound clips), and get them out in English! They can be tidied up and refined later.
Would be nice to have it on open source, so that we could all edit it as we please, and feel like it's something we all contributed to and created, no matter how big or small.
Allen will tell you that if we need dizi flute photos I can raid my collection lol.
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Post by Flolei on Feb 2, 2012 22:52:51 GMT
... Or maybe we could have a common blog where we would share our experience with our own texts, melodies and videos, with links to videos and scores, which are aviable on the net... So, they would be no problem with copyright. Beside this, if I understood well, we are not professional players, so it is important to stay at our place and help western newbies with all we have learnt until now.
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Post by xindi on Feb 3, 2012 0:51:35 GMT
You know, that sounds like such a natural and less stressful way Flolei! I like it
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Post by Blue on Feb 3, 2012 16:38:45 GMT
Xindi is really having too much fun here . . . . .
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Post by phillipr on Feb 4, 2012 20:58:55 GMT
We could do a blog, or we could set up a website using "google sites."
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Post by xindi on Feb 4, 2012 23:31:38 GMT
I would be, if someone else who wasn't as computer illiterite as me did all the work Philip - something like this? I just did a mock up in 10 minutes... groups.google.com/group/Dizi_Flute/topics?hl=en-GBNot sure how to add user functionality - things like videos; clips; diagrams etc. It might have to be uploaded and hosted, but maybe anyone who thinks this is workable, please feel welcome to join the group and gain the editing controls. Preferably people we know from here, so that some spambot doesn't take over and lock us all out of the googlegroup lol.
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Post by phillipr on Feb 5, 2012 6:23:07 GMT
Xindi, Something like that could work perfectly.
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Post by phillipr on Feb 5, 2012 6:24:12 GMT
I've been working on designing my own website for my Irish flute stuff (primarily to promote my online lessons). If you would like for me to whip something like that up for this as well, I'd be happy to give it a go.
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Post by xindi on Feb 5, 2012 16:54:55 GMT
Hi Philip, Would that be a lot of work? The open source platforms where any contributing member can contribute, seems ideal ...the thing about private websites, is that it would only really appeal to those who are really really enthusiastic (!) and not just those who are curious. How's your website going?
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Post by phillipr on Feb 5, 2012 17:48:38 GMT
I don't know if it'd be a lot of work. My website was actually fairly easy to set up. With google sites I believe there is a way to make it a group site so that anyone who is a member can contribute, but I'll have to look into that further. Perhaps you're right, though. It might be better to have the open source platform. I'm just not familiar with how those work, so it'll be a bit of a learning experience for me. My websites are coming along. You can check out the site itself at: sites.google.com/site/irishfluteobsession/Or you can check out my blog at: irishfluteobsession.blogspot.com/I've also got a YouTube channel under the name "IrishFluteObsession." Right now I've only got a handful of videos posted, but am slowly adding more as I get time. The kids are keeping me pretty busy these days.
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Post by Blue on Feb 7, 2012 14:31:57 GMT
Why don't you call yourself "scone" instead of "biscuit"? Anyway, here's a musician's travel blog for reference: chinesetroubadour.blogspot.com/Maybe one can share one's idiosyncratic experience with playing the dizi in blog form . . . . .
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Post by xindi on Feb 8, 2012 22:30:47 GMT
Scones are of a higher class. I've set my sights low, so Biscuit it is. The blog form looks good. Phillip - your websites look way good and are very informative! The Irish Flute Academy looks like it's a working tuition website with a market in mind. I suppose if any new flute comers really want to learn dizi flute, they'll take up lessons, or maybe just ask on the forum. I'm not feeling too altruistic with my time at the moment lol. I'm about a month behind my work schedule :/ Arrgh ...the musician's travel blog put me off with the first photograph! Converging verticals and leaning buildings in Hong Kong's most overphotographed harbour view of its skyscrapers by tourists, who then decry (hint of hypocrisy?), the very light show, put on for people like them, at the city's expense, as they stand there to photograph it and then whinge about it in a puerile blog. At least they could try and get a more expensive mobile phone camera with apps to upload to Twitter and Facebook to announce in real time, every move they make Oops....I'm not going to do very well with a blog as you can see lol
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Post by Blue on Feb 9, 2012 15:21:30 GMT
Forgive that musician from the American heartland who was fortunate to be granted a US$25,000 fellowship for one year to research music in the Sinosphere (Š¿Žš•¶‰»Œ—). Maybe this was his first time to travel extensively abroad. He was given a chance to open his eyes into the wider world because by chance he saw someone playing a cool Chinese instrument in the US middle of nowhere and decided to pick it up himself. And the rest is history . . . . .
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Post by xindi on Feb 9, 2012 20:53:18 GMT
I suppose his rather jaded comment about Hong Kong's 'light show', would meet its match if he looked no further than Las Vegas' flashing billboards lol.
Sounds like he's having a good time!~
It was the collective effort of a joint venture, to bring into the English language, some aspects of the art of the dizi which I think is most fascinating. I'm more likely to read a collective effort, than maybe my own blog lol.
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