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Post by phillipr on Dec 20, 2011 22:47:11 GMT
Can someone explain to me the different levels of dizi performance and/or melodies? Also, could you provide some examples?
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Post by xindi on Dec 23, 2011 21:36:20 GMT
No idea ... not having the language is a real handicap to grasping this. I have a number of books - some are simple, others are more complex. I just play what I like hearing, and ignore what I don't, so I guess that would be an example of a bad level  No doubt there are ABRSM equivalents or staging for flute players. Any piece shorter than 1 side of a page is probably elementary; anything over 4 sides with no indication of where to take a breath, is probably performance material. Suppose it would take someone who can read chinese and has studied dizi formally to explain these levels. 'Orchids in Spring' strikes me as performance grade; it's not that the flutter tonguing is wowing; it's the sheer transformation of energy required in the rhythm of the piece which is hard. Technically I suppose, Purple Bamboo Melody is a performance piece, but an easier one at that in the key of D. But then, Twinkle Twinkle Little Star can be a performance piece depending on the audience... |
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Post by phillipr on Dec 23, 2011 22:17:08 GMT
Thanks, xindi. I'm with you. I think I'll just play what I think sounds nice and ignore the rest. The problem is, all the pieces I like are ridiculously difficult. |
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Post by edcat7 on Dec 23, 2011 23:48:29 GMT
I once read somewhere that it takes 10,000 hours of practice to be a master, whether in martial arts or in music. That equates to over 20 years with at least an hour's practice a day. By the same token I think by the time my teacher retires and we busk together I'd be profficient.
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Post by xindi on Dec 24, 2011 0:12:55 GMT
I think I have low standards when it comes to playing like Zhan Zhong Ming or Yu Xun Fa. I don't even try .. if I can get through to the next phrase without thumbing a wrong note or dropping the flute I give myself a good pat on the jian pu.
Seriously though - chinese dizi music doesn't stay in my aural memory very well. Maybe that's why I can listen to it again and again and not get bored. Maybe that's why I can play the same piece again and again and never get there. A bit like a goldfish with a 5 second memory, thinking he's Marco Polo exploring the untreaded depths of the other side of the goldfish bowl lol.
When you retire Ed, global warming will have taken root and your flutes will all crack in the heat lol.
I must've spent 10,000 hours trying to become a master at Space Invaders only to get squashed into guacamole. I suppose equally serious though...I'm just pleased to hear people play live instruments in public - it never dawns on me to think whether they're good or bad at it - it's just pleasing to see and hear real instruments, instead of hearing pumped out recorded music from cars driving by.
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Post by edcat7 on Dec 24, 2011 0:22:44 GMT
I saw a program on Beijing Opera and the boast was for every minute of performance required 1 year of training. (or something like that)
There has to come an age when mustering the breath to play long complicated pieces gets increasingly difficult. (especially as a smoker) That's why I'm learning the erhu and soon liuqin/zhongruan.
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Post by phillipr on Dec 24, 2011 4:52:42 GMT
Xindi, I'm sure you can listen to the music over and over without getting bored because IT'S AWESOME!!! ;D
I'm with you. I enjoy hearing good live music. It doesn't matter if the musician isn't the greatest in the world. At least he/she had the balls to get out there and share their talent with others. And at least they don't have auto-tune correcting them every time they hit a wrong note.
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Post by phillipr on Dec 24, 2011 4:55:09 GMT
That's interesting that it's believed to take 10,000 hours of practice to master the dizi. The great uilleann (Irish) piper, Seamus Ennis, once said that it takes 21 years to master the pipes: "7 learning, 7 practicing, and 7 playing." Too bad. I was a third of the way there when I sold my set.  Now, I wonder if my time on the Irish flute can count towards my years of practice on the dizi. If so, I might be around half-way to being a master!!! ;D |
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Post by xindi on Dec 29, 2011 2:29:17 GMT
To answer your question .... about the levels/grading system Phillip .. I've found a few books graded between 1-3, 4-6, 7-9. They're all in chinese though and I can't read most of it. I did well to isolate the 'Di' character lol. For ungraded players - if anyone is thinking of going for lessons in the Far East, the tutors tend to charge, according to your skill level. Grade 8/9 is over double the cost of a beginner's lesson. In Europe, I'm more used to the flat tuition fee rate per half hour or hour etc. Here, it's a rising ladder scale. Next time I find a tutor here, I'm going to struggle to play Three Blind Mice or Jingle Bells to get a cheap rate |
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Post by phillipr on Dec 29, 2011 14:55:37 GMT
Hmmmm. Where did you find that graded books? I'd like to find something like that and work my way through them. I think I've found a graded book by Tang Jun Qiao, but I'm not sure as there was no image for it on amazon. I hope you had a merry Christmas. |
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Post by Flolei on Dec 29, 2011 16:04:58 GMT
I bought some books about Chinese flutes at www.sogoeo.com/I was very satisfied with the service and the books. Two books present the different levels. I will try to write something about this next week. |
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Post by edcat7 on Dec 29, 2011 18:20:05 GMT
sogoeo.com has a very good selection of books. However the postage is extortionate.
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Post by phillipr on Dec 29, 2011 19:31:56 GMT
sogoeo.com has a very good selection of books. However the postage is extortionate. I can't afford to purchase from them anyhow.  There selection does look fantastic though. Had I money I'd have every one of those books and VCDs in my collection. |
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Post by xindi on Dec 30, 2011 3:15:36 GMT
Hmmmm. Where did you find that graded books? I'd like to find something like that and work my way through them. I think I've found a graded book by Tang Jun Qiao, but I'm not sure as there was no image for it on amazon. I hope you had a merry Christmas. Thanks Phillip - I spent most of Christmas watching endless loops of recent Hollywood movies with strangers I never met. On a flight to China I shot a few images of the books available in one of the music book stores here - but I can't read the titles, so I have to thumb through the books to check out the scores inside. From what I gather, the Shanghai Conservatory Music exams are very popular as a national standard - there is at least Grade 9 (top) in many instruments. I didn't realise that there was such a thing as a Grade 9 Harmonica exam, but there it is. That's rather adventurous.... they have a grading system for traditional chinese and western instruments using their Shanghai standards - so it's not like ABRSM in Europe. Most of the books here range from around US$3-10. They are geared towards learners and have many drills. A few have CDs etc, but there are so many it's mindnumbing just going through each book. |
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Post by phillipr on Dec 30, 2011 3:21:24 GMT
That's awesome that you have the opportunity to go over there and look into this stuff. The best I have is trying to find the books online, then hoping I have the money to purchase them. Tang Jun Qiao and Zhang Wei Liang both have books out that I'd love to get my hands on some day. I found the ones by Jun Qiao on Amazon, but they are nearly $60.00. Wei Liang has a couple of VCDs that I'd love to get as well, but I haven't been able to find them anywhere.
It's probably a good thing. I should master all the stuff on the 2 Measures program before I overwhelm myself with everything else that's out there.
I hope you have a safe and pleasant trip.
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Post by xindi on Dec 30, 2011 3:26:56 GMT
Do you know the chinese characters for Tang Jun Quao and Zhang Wei Liang? I can probably find it, or send you a .jpg image file of the books in this store. Books aren't expensive here - the postage is Many of the music stores here carry a rich selection of dizi, guzheng, orchestral (traditional) VCDs and CDs. It took me months to realise how to play a VCD on a computer. The one item I'd thoroughy recommend is a decent music stand, which can actually hold books without crashing everything down. My last music stand tipped my favourite tome of Shanghai Conservatory music into a lake, so I found the book again and bought it for the second time. It weighs just under 800grams but it has some of the most exciting dizi scores I've ever come across. |
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Post by phillipr on Dec 30, 2011 4:24:38 GMT
I don't know the Chinese characters. I'll send you a message with the images.
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Post by davidmdahl on Dec 30, 2011 17:53:30 GMT
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Post by xindi on Dec 31, 2011 10:32:34 GMT
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Post by Flolei on Jan 29, 2012 9:28:33 GMT
Very interesting topic. I didn't know, for example, that the price of lessons depends on the playing level. Leaf through Chinese books and tutorials about dizi playing isn’t only useful for players, it also says a lot about how Chinese musicians look at their own music. Therefore I bought – from Sogoeo – this book: www.sogoeo.com/dizi-exam-pieces-110-grading-music-sheet-p-6601.html, which is actually an anthology of exams pieces for all levels (from the 1st to the 10th). It seems that the following criterias play an important role in the classification of pieces into the different levels: - the length of the piece; - the combination of slow parts (in which the intonation, breathing, vibrato and expressiveness are very important) and the quick ones (in which the finger dexterity and the accurate tonguing play the main role); - the length of the flute (all the pieces for low pitched dizis are in the highest categories (for example, “The Flying partridge” is in the 9th category probably partly because it is written for Bb dizi); - the complexity of ornamentation (for example, “The New song of the Herdsmen” is in the 7th category probably because we can notice in it all kinds of ornaments). If the first two points are actually also relevant for Western flute music, the last two seem to be very characteristic for Chinese music. Because of that it is sometimes difficult to be sure in which level one piece will be classified. |
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Post by xindi on Jan 29, 2012 21:04:50 GMT
Thanks for the thoughtful breakdown Flolei!~
I have a Grade 7-9 book which is frightfully painful. I can't get my head around all the extra annotations: suddenly // on notes, as well as ~ or = on top of notes, and other squiggles start appearing prolifically all over the sheet music!
Some seem familiar from guzheng tabalature, however a lot of the music, has flats and sharps ... which I suppose must be intended even on a 6 hole dizi.
I wonder ....
If we all uploaded a single page (each), we could probably create an internet resource for newbies to start and work out how to play dizi up levels, without violating any copyright issues.
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Post by Flolei on Jan 29, 2012 21:23:02 GMT
I agree, I already copied and transcribed into Western notation some famous tunes, so I can very easily cooperate in the project you propose. The only thing is that I'm not very good in using computers, so I hope you will manage a space on the net for this project and tell me how you expect me (us) to share knowledge and tunes.
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Post by xindi on Jan 30, 2012 20:47:23 GMT
Hi Flolei, From your playing, I guess a forum project venture to work on making the dizi flute music more accessible to those with: a) no source materials/books b) no chinese literacy c) no knowledge of jian pu wouldn't benefit you nor I and other frequent users of this forum ... but it would help encourage those interested in the dizi flute to start playing maybe?! I suppose we could ask David and the forum moderators if they think it's a good idea to host some static pages on this board, with dizi materials. It would definitely require more than two of us to pull together enough material to make it work. Plus I suppose, it depends on whether there is a demand from others wish to support this 'open source' dizi reference project in English. The model I think, which I'm really impressed with, is Carol of www.chinesezither.net - where she has literally made the guzheng's playing method available for free, in English, for the first time to us non-chinese readers (I'm aware of Bei Bei's method book in English exists). I'm a big fan of open source material: maybe the moderators can comment on whether this is a good or a bad idea? |
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Post by Flolei on Jan 30, 2012 21:31:32 GMT
Hi, Xindi!
Yes, I agree with all you wrote. We could have ressources for Western beginners. We could give the both versions - jianpu in western notation. All this, of course, if the president and moderator think that it is a good idea to work on such a project and if we find enough colleagues to work with us.
Good night,
Flolei
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Post by davidmdahl on Jan 31, 2012 6:21:53 GMT
A dizi resource sounds like a worthy project, however this forum does not host files. If you find a file hosting service that you want to use, you can post links in message on the dizi forum, and I can make it sticky. If you want to get ambitious, then you might create a website, using Carol's guzheng site as a model.
Consider the risks of posting images of copyrighted method and tunebooks. Melodies can also be copyrighted, so it pays to be careful. Notice that Carol posts her own material, rather than images of published books. With the takedown of Megaupload.com, I imagine that other file hosting sites will be a little more careful than in the past.
I do not wish to discourage a dizi resource, but suggest thinking it through.
Best wishes,
David
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There selection does look fantastic though. Had I money I'd have every one of those books and VCDs in my collection.
