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Post by edcat7 on Dec 20, 2011 20:11:49 GMT
It's because of this piece of music played by Zhan Zhong Ming that led me to learn the dizi. It's composed by my teacher's late best friend (small world!). I have the sheet music for it but is at the moment too complicated for me. Notice the tongue fluttering. It's played in the key of E. www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrYqfkCuzLo |
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Post by Flolei on Dec 20, 2011 22:16:15 GMT
Yes, it is a beautiful piece, but it is really a very complicated one. I think it is grade 8 (like the Flight if the Padridge). It doesn't matter: I already got used to the fact that the pieces I'm listening to are not the same that the ones I play! Because of this one I've bought a dizi in E (even if I thought before that it was too high pitched): www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwTwT92_zxEUnfortunetly I didn't found the second part played by the same flutist and orchestra. It is a pity because it is for me the best interpretation of this piece on the net. |
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Post by phillipr on Dec 20, 2011 22:45:55 GMT
This is a great melody, and one of the reasons I got into dizi playing to begin with.
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Post by edcat7 on Dec 20, 2011 23:53:25 GMT
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Post by phillipr on Dec 23, 2011 19:04:33 GMT
I got into dizi playing just for the sake of learning to play this piece... as well as she plays it.  www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWpCc58MhOsI can do a bit of it, but not the whole thing... yet. ;D |
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Post by phillipr on Dec 23, 2011 19:06:35 GMT
I can do about half of this tune (up to and including some of the fast bit). I've been using Yu Xunfa as my model. So much of my ornamentation is identical to his. Hopefully in a couple of months I'll be able to do the whole thing. Perhaps I'll post a video of it or something just to get some opinions. |
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Post by xindi on Dec 23, 2011 21:25:53 GMT
Interesting piece ... but no wonder my ears hurt....an E key...hmm! There is some great repertoire for E key too. I'm amazed at how people can play by ear. I suppose I need to try it in an E key flute instead of a D key flute first lol.
I have a piece by Yu Xunfa doing a hommage to Cheng Zhong on xiao flute. There is a chamber orchestra in the background but the overtones and breathing on the xiao are very evident - possibly a mic'g issue or just the way it's picked up. No such issues on the dizi though.
That piece 'Orchids in Spring' played by Zhan in the associated vid clips is my fav.
It doesn't matter: I already got used to the fact that the pieces I'm listening to are not the same that the ones I play!
I really enjoyed that - what an accomplished flute player too! The slow movement appeals to me more though. What's the name of this piece?
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Post by edcat7 on Dec 23, 2011 21:28:40 GMT
WOW! to be able to play both tunes. Did you listen endlessly to recordings of the tunes and replicate yourself or did you play them reading jianpo? My treacher's interuptation of 'A trip to Gansu' is slightly different, but bercause I have heard him play it so often I guess only I will notice: www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dH5ihSTTCLearning under my teacher is musically tough, like training with the Shaolin monks! Anyone who has spent years doing any kind of martial art will know what I mean. My teacher likes the analogy too. Your version will always sound different. Can you flutter toungue too? as I can't....yet. The three people in the link, Li Ming, my dizi/erhu teacher, Cheng Yu, I've delivered her mail!! and Chuang Cheng ying, soon to be my liuqin/zhongruan teacher. We will all look forward to your videos. (And I thought you said your Irish flute background doesn't help with playing the dizi!) |
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Post by edcat7 on Dec 23, 2011 21:42:40 GMT
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Post by phillipr on Dec 23, 2011 22:15:02 GMT
WOW! to be able to play both tunes. Did you listen endlessly to recordings of the tunes and replicate yourself or did you play them reading jianpo? My treacher's interuptation of 'A trip to Gansu' is slightly different, but bercause I have heard him play it so often I guess only I will notice: www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dH5ihSTTCLearning under my teacher is musically tough, like training with the Shaolin monks! Anyone who has spent years doing any kind of martial art will know what I mean. My teacher likes the analogy too. Your version will always sound different. Can you flutter toungue too? as I can't....yet. The three people in the link, Li Ming, my dizi/erhu teacher, Cheng Yu, I've delivered her mail!! and Chuang Cheng ying, soon to be my liuqin/zhongruan teacher. We will all look forward to your videos. (And I thought you said your Irish flute background doesn't help with playing the dizi!) Mostly I listen to the tunes over and over again, and then replicate what I hear. It's also helpful to watch videos of other dizi players playing them, that way I can see what their fingers are going and try to replicate the motion. Admittedly it's probably not the best way to learn, but it's all I have. This is pretty much the same way I learned Irish flute... only Irish tunes are much easier to learn by ear. There are very obvious patterns within Irish music that, once you've figured them out, make it much easier to learn tunes. I'm noticing patterns within the Chinese music as well, but they aren't as obvious or as oft-repeated as in Irish music. Your teacher sounds amazing. I wish I had such a teacher beating my lazy butt into shape. ;D Perhaps if I record some videos and send them to Mr. Liu he could help me out. I never really had a teacher for Irish flute either. I learned mostly by listening to and watching others. There were some fantastic Irish flute players that came from time to time to the music school where I taught. When that happened I would have a private lesson with them. But this was far from steady; maybe two or three lessons a year. Still, they were my mentors and they certainly had an impact on my flute formation. I can do a couple types of flutter tonguing. I'm best at the kind where it's more like a growling in the back of the throat. I don't know if this is something that used among dizi players, but I guess it is one of the forms used among classical flutists. I'm not so good at the flutter tonguing that resembles Italian "r" rolling. I can sort of do it, but my tone greatly suffers, especially in comparison to when I do the "growling" form of flutter-tonguing. It's a work in progress. I wouldn't be too excited about any videos I post. I'm seriously not that great on the dizi (as much as I would like to be). |
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Post by phillipr on Dec 23, 2011 22:15:37 GMT
Excellent video. Wish I had him as a teacher too. ;D |
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Post by edcat7 on Dec 23, 2011 23:25:46 GMT
Phillip.
You must be doing something right to win competitions in the Irish flute. And i've seen you on your blog. Though I no nothing about the Irish flute I appreciate good music when I hear it.
I think when you post videos of your playing the dizi i will show him. He has been asked next year to be guest dizi lecturer at SOAS, University of London.
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Post by phillipr on Dec 24, 2011 4:49:03 GMT
That'd be awesome if you showed your teacher. I'd love some feedback (although the possibility of negative feedback makes me nervous). It be great to know what I'm doing right (if anything) and what I'm doing wrong (probably everything). |
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Post by xindi on Dec 29, 2011 2:32:20 GMT
For anyone interested, the music for this is published by the Shanghai Publications in the collected tome of Dizi works. This one is on page 89.
I sunk my last copy in a pond and the pages adhered so I'm missing notes between pages where they stuck.
Just got an E key dizi too Flolei! It's not as earpiercing as I had thought so I'm looking forward to finding out more E key pieces (Dance of the Yi transcribes well to E key for flute too).
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Post by Flolei on Dec 29, 2011 8:00:38 GMT
Xindi, Sorry, probably because of my poor English you didn't understand well: because of the Lan Hua Hua's ballad I actually bought a E dizi (a really good one from Peter Hseih) and it is now one of my favourite ones (hmm... actually all my dizis are my favourite...). With it I play the New herdsman's song with a great enthousiasm....! Lan Hua Hua's ballad is too difficult for me. Actually I would play it easier with a D flute, but the problem is that in this case it is impossible to play the high E at the middle of the piece. E dizi tunes? For example, the "Yellow river song" sounds great (it is written for F dizi, so only half a tone higher). The Tatar dance (ËþËþ¶û×åÎèÇú) is nice to play too (look at: www.56.com/u21/v_NDIzMzA3ODI.html). When I will be back home, I will write something about my first/new low G and something about tune levels (I have no books with me). Have a great time! |
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Post by phillipr on Dec 29, 2011 14:53:54 GMT
Flolei, you can play Herdsman's New Song?!!!! Wow I wish I were that far along. That's been one of my goals, but I still have a long way to go.
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Post by xindi on Dec 30, 2011 3:21:04 GMT
Hi Flolei, Your English is just fine! And miles better than my Mandarin  That Tatar Dance is way too lively for me - I can't imagine I'd ever be able to huff and puff my way through it like that little girl. She's brilliant though. The E key flute I've got is made by a specialist in rosewood dizi flutes. His cost US$150 and has a 6 month waiting list, unless a shop already has it in stock. I suspect it's probably the combination of the rosewood material which makes the E key less earpiercing for me - it sounds 'deeper' and more resonant than the other E key flutes I've tried. |
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Post by Flolei on Dec 30, 2011 8:02:11 GMT
Hi Phillip,
I wrote I play this tune with great enthusiasm, but I didn't write that I play it very well... I have to work more and more to be able to play it properly!
If I understood well all your posts, we have a very different history of flute playing. You have no problem with fast playing and ornementation, exactly the opposite of me! I don't understand Irish and Chinese ornementation and have serious problems in the fast parts of tunes. My good side is that I'm used - from classical western flute - to have an accurate and expressive intonation. For the other things, I have to improve a lot. But I'm still optimist!
Hi Xindi,
You know, the Tatar dance is really not so difficult. I have often troubles with fast parts of tunes, but not in this case. At the begining I thought the same (too lively, so too difficult) and I wondered why the tune was classified in my book as a level 4 (one level before the Little Shepherd, for example). Now, I know that it is a reallistic classification. The fast parts come really easy under fingers, especially because the E dizi is really very confortable. Have a try!
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Post by phillipr on Dec 30, 2011 15:14:20 GMT
Hi Flolei, Even if you don't play the tune well, you're still ahead of me. I don't play it at all. Some day, God willing (and provided my wife has enough patience for it), I'll get there. You are correct. Ornamentation is not really a problem for me. At this point it's really a matter of gaining a deeper understanding of the Chinese ornamentation and how it is used in the melodies. I've also got to adjust a bit and get the muscle memory to execute Chinese ornamentation properly. A good deal of ornamentation used in Irish music is primarily for rhythmic emphasis. Decorating the tune, while certainly intended, is secondary to rhythmic articulation. This is a very big adjustment when playing Chinese music. Here the ornamentation seems to be primarily to... well, ornament the melody; not so much to bring out rhythmic nuances. Fast fingering is usually not that big of a problem for me, once I've got the melody figured out. But figuring out the melody well enough to make it through the fast fingering can take some time. My biggest problem right now is achieving the proper tone. In Irish music we flute players really "bear down" on our tone in an attempt to achieve a trumpet/saxophone-like sound that is very loud and can carry well when playing for dances or with multiple musicians and no microphone. So we're not so much about expressive tone as loud tone.  There are standards for good and bad tone in Irish music, but they're different from Western Classical and Chinese music. Most Classical flutists would think that I have terrible tone because they'd have Classical standards in mind. Conversely, most Irish flutists, when they hear a Classical flutist attempting to play Irish music, think Classical flutists have bad tone. Again, that's because we hold them up to the standards of Irish music, not Classical. Long story short, I have to work more on my intonation to make it sound more Chinese rather than Irish. ;D |
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There are standards for good and bad tone in Irish music, but they're different from Western Classical and Chinese music. Most Classical flutists would think that I have terrible tone because they'd have Classical standards in mind. Conversely, most Irish flutists, when they hear a Classical flutist attempting to play Irish music, think Classical flutists have bad tone. Again, that's because we hold them up to the standards of Irish music, not Classical.