Can one play guqin well without nails?

[guzhenglover]

I am just wondering if people have an opinion about whether to grow fingernails or not if they play guqin. Quite a few people I know seem adament that nails are required esp. if one wants to produce a good sound on the guqin, whilst others don't seem to have a strong opinion about this and just give the impression that regardless of having nails or not, one can still play well. So how does it go, then?

I think this is an important question particularly if we want to encourage more musicians to learn to play guqin without asking them to give up other musical instruments that they already play, like the piano, which cannot have long fingernails, let alone grow them on purpose.

[Charlie Huang]

You can play a qin without nails. Nothing wrong with that. But if you want to become a good serious qin player then it is a must. For example, Wang Tingting plays piano and qin and she cuts her nails. She plays well. The only concern is sound because strings sound better if plucked using a hard object (like pipa, guzheng, ruan, guitar, etc), same with guqin.

Personally, I think nails are critical. I've played without nails and I hated the feel and sound of emptiness that resulted, and so I gave up for a month to let my nails grow longer.

My nails are probably longer than the usual player's but for me, I find the qin more comfortable and more enjoyable that way. It is basically all down to one's own preferences.

[Si]

I often wonder if mere motals wonder why my nails are long on one side and normal on the other. They probably think I am lazy to cut them.

But it was interesting when I was having a shuffty at the qins during the recent shanghai expo and the lady said that she could tell i played the qin cos of my nails. Finally an out-cast no longer!

[Charlie Huang]

I'm still waiting for the day when someone would come up to me and say that!

[SCWGuqin]

I put gel on my nails to reinforce them. When I first attended a qin society meeting, suddenly I was surrounded by eccentric white guys who, just like me, had long nails covered in gel! I felt so at home...

[Charlie Huang]

Gel? News to me! I don't use any 'nail varnish' on mines, though I sometimes use a nail buffer before a major event, such as the summer school...

[SCWGuqin]

Maybe you're not playing hard enough

[guzhenglover]

Well it's sounding like the general consensus is to go with nails. The next (related) question, then, is whether it's possible to find fake/pretend nails to wear, like ones does when playing guzheng?

Thanks guys.

[SCWGuqin]

That's never done, to my knowledge. The idea is that it would impede the intimate touch of fingers on strings that is so essential to qin music. I suppose someone could try it and report.

I tried "Alaska Piks" for a while; they're really clever little plectra that slip onto the fingertip and fasten under the nail for stability. But even though they matched quite closely the shape of a fingernail, the "intimate touch" aspect was totally gone.

Plus, a lot of techniques for the qin can be very forceful and strain even natural nails. (At least the way I play!) As such, you wouldn't want fake nails fastened with anything less strong than the natural bond between nail and flesh. I guess you could use acrylic false nails...but not any kind that you could take off and put back on easily.

[Si]

For me I have never felt the need for any substance on my nails, but I do have some grooves on the sides of the thumb nail on the left hand. When I have had been practicing a lot especially around the 6th hui - it seems to dig in more and cause a feeling (i would not call it pain - but it causes be to look at the nail and think - oh I hope I dont cut a hole through this nail type of thing).

[Charlie Huang]

Fake nails, no no. As UV said, they hinder performance. I tried it with pipa nails once and the sound was 'plasticy' and it just had a slippery feeling to them that is very undesirable.

[guzhenglover]

Well to me it seems like it's about time someone invents those fake nails that (1) WON'T stand in the way of good performance; (2) WILL feel like the real thing without the performer consciously knowing that they are there; and (3) that you COULD put on and take off easily. Surely there are scientifically-minded guqin out there (or rather, in this forum here!) who might be able to device something? I am sure guzheng players couldn't wait for something clever like that to come up, either!

[Charlie Huang]

I suppose there wasn't a need for this sort of thing to be invented coz unlike other instruments, you can play qin without fake nails after the transition from silk strings to metal-nylon. It is only the piano players have problems with this, so unless there are more piano players who are also guqin players, thus requiring it, I don't think anyone would bother as it really isn't a essential matter to be dealt with.

[Si]

When I first attended a qin society meeting, suddenly I was surrounded by eccentric white guys who, just like me, had long nails covered in gel! I felt so at home...

I have never even been in a room that had one other "eccentric white guy" apart from me, so count yourself lucky.

Also I am a fan of early western music and for the last 10 years I have never ever meet another person that likes early music. (not counting people you sit next to at concerts)

Why am I so weird........and eccentric?

[SCWGuqin]

I performed medieval music for many years before switching to guqin.

You're not alone. You're one of the Elect...

[davidmdahl]

syburn said:

I have never even been in a room that had one other "eccentric white guy" apart from me, so count yourself lucky.

Also I am a fan of early western music and for the last 10 years I have never ever meet another person that likes early music. (not counting people you sit next to at concerts)

Why am I so weird........and eccentric?

That is what is fun about the Internet, weird and eccentric people like us have someone to talk to. <g>

I don't know about China, but there are "Early Music" groups and fans in certain parts of the USA. Portland, Seattle, San Francisco, and Los Angelos have healthy communities in Early Music, and I imagine that this is likewise true of Boston, Cleveland, Chicago and other larger metropolitan areas.

Your chances of running into a Early Music fan on the street are not quite as good as at Boston or San Francisco at the Early Music Festival, but we are around.

Best wishes,

David

[Si]

I have some very good cd's from US groups like the Balimore and Newbury consort.

I suppose there ought to be even more Early Music Fans in the UK but I only seem to vist for Holidays.

[silkstring]

Hi, I am new to the guqin but I am a professional musician of western Early Music (someone mentioned not knowing early music lovers). The question of nails is important for me too, as I have to compromise between harpsichord, my professional instrument, and guqin, my hobby instrument. What I have done is to slightly adjust both techniques to make it work. I now play the harpsichord with slightly less curved fingers than before, and I play the guqin with slightly more curved fingers than ideal. False nails can be used though if you buy normal western glue on nails for normal female manicure. I have used them and although a little slippery, they do work while normal nails are growing underneath. However, that said, there is the question of whether or not the ancients used nails at all on the guqin. I have also seen arguments for both sides. I wonder if the fifth paragraph of this 13th century text illuminates it at all: www.peiyouqin.com/qindao.html. There is mention of choosing between nail and flesh sound when "pressing" strings (English translation). I have asked Chinese friends who are not very well versed with classical Chinese, who think this could be either pressing as in the left hand or plucking/striking/playing as in the right hand (按 translates as press, push, check, control, restrain etc. depending on context and can be understood to simply mean "play"). As the left thumb only might arguably use a nail (though many seem to prefer not to) this quote might well mean that the right hand nails were optional perhaps. No?

[davidmdahl]

Welcome to the forum, Silkstring. We don't get much guqin traffic here anymore. I certainly don't want to discourage the topic, but if you don't get replies, I suggest the guqin group on Facebook. The guqin crowd is a lot more active there.

Best wishes,

David

[silkstring]

Thank you for your kind welcome, davidmdahl. I am a member of that Facebook group also and find it interesting.

[orphen]

Hello, since i was Born without nails. Can i play guqin? How i Can compensate for my lack of It? If you Need i send my picture of finger