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Post by myears on Sept 15, 2006 22:29:35 GMT
Does anyone have any information about guqin styles. Not necesarily personal styles, even though that is important, but more like regional styles of guqin performance. I was studying in Suzhou this summer and one time my teacher corrected my playing, drawing my attention to subtle differences in the playing that characterized the Wu style of guqin. He also said something about the Shandong style and the Sichuan style. But he only made passing references to them. does anyone know anything about the different playing styles in China?
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Post by SCWGuqin on Sept 16, 2006 3:15:07 GMT
People often talk about regional styles because such a model simplifies things--and because it is still somewhat applicable, though less so now than 100 years ago. Generally guqin is highly individualistic so players' approaches will be very personal. Today the three main centers of guqin are Beijing, the Jiangnan area (lower Changjiang valley, including Shanghai) and Sichuan (esp. Chengdu). Most major masters as of the 1950s were located in Beijing or Jiangnan; before that, they had been more concentrated in Jiangnan. For instance, Zha Fuxi and Wu Jinglue spent many years living and teaching in Jiangnan before being relocated to Beijing for official duties. "Regional styles" as of 50-60 years ago would be rather different from "regional styles" in the present day, owing to the importance of a few masters and the conservatories in Beijing and Shanghai. I think that presently, given the strength of the conservatory system, "northern and southern conservatory styles" deserve their own status, separate from the older regional styles. As far as older regional styles, the best-known ones are from Jiangnan and Sichuan. Some have relocated several times, like the Zhucheng/Mei'an style. Major living Jiangnan lineages include Guangling, Zhe (Xumen) and Wumen. Others, like a "Jinling" style centered in Nanjing, don't really seem to exist anymore--though there's always an old master or two as counterexample. (1) For several generations the major qin lineage in Zhejiang has been surnamed Xu; Yao Bingyan and his tentative "Yaomen" lineage are an offshoot. I can't really say much about this style; it is not so well known, though several Xumen masters have been very respected. (2) In Suzhou there is the Wumen style, most associated with Wu Zhaoji and his teachers before him. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems "Wumen" is named largely after Wu Zhaoji himself, and his legacy seems to define the school in large measure. (3) Guangling style is very prominent, mainly because it heavily influenced the "southern conservatory style". Guangling was originally centered in Yangzhou; its two major 20th century masters were Zhang Ziqian and Liu Shaochun. These taught a number of students destined for prominence, and Zhang himself became the de facto leading qin master in Jiangnan during the 1950s and 1960s. Major players today with strong Guangling influence include Gong Yi, Cheng Gongliang, Lin Youren, Mei Yueqiang, and their various students. If you want to discuss more about Guangling style, we can do that. It's very interesting and though I've never actually learned from or played with a Guangling player, it left a big impression on me. The "southern conservatory style" is basically what goes on at the Shanghai Conservatory where qin is concerned. A number of masters (incl. Zhang Ziqian, Wei Zhongle, Shen Caonong, Gu Meigeng, and others) taught there in the 1950s, and Gong Yi has been the doyen since then. He has numerous students; to some extent "southern conservatory style" reduces to "Gong Yi style", just like "Wumen" reduces to "Wu Zhaoji style". Gong Yi has very distinctive ideas and has done major interesting work. Now for Zhucheng/Mei'an. This school started in Shandong, with a lot of folk influence and energy. "Zhucheng" still refers to the sub-set of players who stayed in Shandong. Xu Lisun became the doyen of the "Mei'an" style when he moved to Nantong, in Jiangnan. From there he taught many of the living Jiangnan players, directly or indirectly. In addition, a student of his named Wu Zonghan moved to Taiwan (in 1949?) and has made Taiwan (and by extension HK) a major reservoire of Mei'an influence. Moving down the coast, we have Fujian. The "Min" school, of which Chen Changlin calls himself an inheritor, seems largely dead today. In Guangdong there is the Lingnan school, whose major player is Xie Daoxiu. Again I can't say much about these, though Lingnan playing is very interesting. Again, if you care to do so, we can discuss that more. Generally (stereotypically), the Jiangnan styles are thought of as rather light and elegant. Guangling is very abstract, even "floating", and today the southern conservatory style is the more "light and elegant" of the conservatory styles. Sichuan, as early as the Tang dynasty, was perceived as having qin play characterized by rushing, tumbling energy. The modern Sichuan/Shu/Chuan school was largely founded by Zhang Kongshan in the late 19th cent; his inheritors have been very numerous, and something like half of the people on the 8 CD silk anthology are counted as Sichuan players. As the Sichuan style fanned out into other areas of China (as it seemed to do rather successfully in the early 20th cent.), it became known as "Fanchuan", whose connotation is something like "Chuan - EVERYWHERE!"  A number of Sichuan masters play on metal strings on various Hugo CDs. Today the main representative is Zeng Chengwei, who has a very focused, straightforward style. Charlie studied from him for a bit; Charlie, tell us all about him! Now to Beijing. I know little about Beijing styles prior to the 1950s; the "big three" of midcentury Beijing all apparently had styles hailing from elsewhere. Guan Pinghu apparently based his playing on southern styles, though he studied with masters from all over; Wu Jinglue and Zha Fuxi were both southerners. It's important to realize that there are lineages and micro-lineages and associations among all masters. For instance, there was some kind of long association between Zha Fuxi and Peng Qingshou (both from Hunan?) that may have been artistically productive. In any event, if there is a "Beijing style" today, I think it is largely the "northern conservatory style". Northern conservatory style has two main representatives today: Li Xiangting and Wu Wenguang. The primary older masters contributing to the making of this style were Wu Jinglue, Zha Fuxi, and Guan Pinghu. Generally, the northern conservatory style is heavier, harder, and more intense than the southern conservatory style. Li Xiangting is of course known for being very hard and athletic in his playing; Wu Wenguang, while rather lighter, still has a more intense and serious tone than Gong Yi. Miniature "regional styles" abound and are gathered around particular important teachers. For instance, many in HK studied from Cai Deyun, who has a very distinctive style ultimately derived from Sichuan. I hope this was interesting/helpful and not just a huge mass of random facts. I kind of wouldn't mind talking more about this... |
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Post by Charlie Huang on Sept 16, 2006 9:17:04 GMT
If Xuanlong wouldn't mind, I'd like to transpose your post to wiki form! Wiki is lacking an article about qin schools, and this would be a good preliminary work to start me off! The main qin article is more or less complete, but some sister articles need more work.
AS for ZCW, I love his very unadorned style. Refreshing may be the word. For example, his Kongzi Duyi sounds sweet, his Qiu Shui is what one might describe as 'tan' or plain (has a feeling of transcendence), his Pei Lan you can almost smell the orchids, etc. Very light in method, the strength comes from feeling.
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Post by SCWGuqin on Sept 16, 2006 18:45:26 GMT
Charlie: sure you can use my post as a basis for a wiki article. But I expect it would need to be modified quite a bit to make it more comprehensive and formal. (Plus actually researched!)
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Post by Charlie Huang on Sept 16, 2006 23:01:22 GMT
Of course, like I said I will transpose it to wiki form (i.e. rid first-person perspective and POV). And I got the Zhang Huaying book to cite from!
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Post by myears on Oct 12, 2006 21:55:16 GMT
Thanks for all the information on qin regional styles. I'll be doing some research on this topic in the coming year. So, any info or reference books you can suggest will be very helpful. On guangling style could you describe it in more detail. Especially "floating", what do you mean? It sounds very alluring.
Can anyone recommend some good fanchuan cds. I've heard that this style is very abstract.
Cheers,
myears
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Post by Si on Oct 13, 2006 9:21:45 GMT
Well the HUGO cds from Hong Kong are all organised into style groups - sichuan, guangling, fujian etc
unfortunatly they dont cover all the styles and maybe alot of the important players are dying off....................
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Post by SCWGuqin on Oct 13, 2006 9:34:54 GMT
As syburn said, the HUGO series is the place to start. Also, I think, the 8-CD silk anthology.
It's a totally amazing fact about the guqin that (as I pointed out with Wang Huade) some of the best musicans, truly visionary, can be the old amateur guys with objectively poor technique but a whole lotta qi and a lifetime of reflection.
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Post by Si on Oct 13, 2006 18:43:22 GMT
I wonder if someones "poor techique" is another mans "style".
I thought that Wang Huade sounded great!
I dont know if anyone here knows - but HUGO have not released any qin CDs for ages - have they given up or what?
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Post by Charlie Huang on Oct 14, 2006 10:04:10 GMT
I heard that they have!
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Post by Si on Oct 14, 2006 15:10:44 GMT
They have given up!!! - oh thats a disaster
there is only ROI left and they also dont release much. Last one i heard of from them was the Mei-an one.
I dont think there are any of labels actively producing new collections....
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Post by SCWGuqin on Oct 14, 2006 15:15:37 GMT
Time for guys like us to step up and start making recordings of our own... |
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Post by calden on Oct 14, 2006 15:41:35 GMT
Hey:
I'm a crossover alien from the erhu side of life, but I sometimes like to check up on you other types...
I agree it's time to make recordings, at least for our own enjoyment. I used to belong to an Irish instrument group and every couple of years we produced our own CD set. Everything from pro leve to amateur recording quality, it was all appreciated and respected, and really helped bring us together as a musical family.
If people contributed a piece or two in accetable recording format (MP3, AIFF, WAV, even cassette tape - I can hear some of the younger members: "Huh? What's that?") a CD or two could be slapped together and mailed out. It would be someone's volunteer time to compile, equalize for volume, and burn CDs, then mail them out. Cost would be media, postage, and maybe a bit to reimburse for time spent. Wouldn't need fancy production or a nice label even - just a CD or two with contributions.
carlos
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Post by Charlie Huang on Oct 14, 2006 22:30:30 GMT
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Post by calden on Oct 15, 2006 1:56:02 GMT
Dude:
Nice job. I'm listening to it now. I'm thinking audio contributions, but video would be good, too. Hey - maybe we could set up a webpage with contributions, so people could more easily access them.
Carlos
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Post by Si on Oct 15, 2006 4:06:28 GMT
Especially when you hear that 8 volume set of qin recordings, recorded in china ages ago - I think all there recording equiptment would have been quite primative.
CCC - are you just using your web cam microphone to record?
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Post by Charlie Huang on Oct 15, 2006 9:09:31 GMT
Web cam and a separate microphone. Using a single microphone to record using audicity yields a poorer sound quality for some reason...
I've been trying to experiment with different distancing of the mic; too close and the frequencies are too high, too far and it is too quiet.
I've recorded a number for the wiki article.
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Post by Charlie Huang on Oct 19, 2006 18:15:42 GMT
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Post by Si on Oct 20, 2006 16:51:36 GMT
Thats a great link. Can see very clearly how to play the piece.
I think thats a great aid for anyone needing some help if they have no teacher.
Unforunately I have to let the whole thing upload so i can watch without annoying pauses every 2 seconds.
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Post by SCWGuqin on Oct 20, 2006 18:44:54 GMT
CCC...I think there's a problem with your left-hand ring finger. It looks far too straight and rigid. It also looks like you might be contacting the string too close to the front of the finger pad. Where's your groove/callus?
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Post by Charlie Huang on Oct 21, 2006 9:19:34 GMT
It's the edge bit, near the nail. I 'sometimes' use the middle tip if I need the strength (my qin has string resistant problems with forces my fingers to be crooked). Of course, I noticed some other bad habits which I have acknowledged and need to correct.
On another note, CCTV was gonna film a yaji today (Sat), but I decided not to go cos it was at night and I'm not gonna have a panic attack come going home time (could stay over night, but I'm skint)...
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Post by Si on Oct 21, 2006 11:18:26 GMT
what filming a yaji in england?
on cctv9(english) or the chinese channels?
is there some sudden interest in guqin from cctv these days?
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Post by Charlie Huang on Oct 21, 2006 15:23:05 GMT
"A lady from Beijing wants to film [the yaji] for China Central Television (CCTV). The video will be broadcast by CCTV’s Green Space Program, a scientific and technological channel. She is Sheri Liao, president of an environmental organisation called Global Village of Beijing (GVB), web site www.gvbchina.org.cn ." The yaji is at Cheng Yu's house tonight at 7:30pm. I obviously cannot make it because of time constraints (no free place to stay in and a stress ridden journey home). I'd rather spend £25 on a good Christmas lunch on the 25th Nov for my Derren Brown Fan Forum meet-up than on a hotel room tonight, especially so since I am struggling with funding for these things. I have to get my priorities straight for this and on the scale, meeting my forumites (that I never met before) is more important than 15 seconds on TV! Also, I wonder why it has to be 7:30 in the night. Surely the afternoon is more appropriate? Anyways, cut off time has gone. Not only is there a yaji on tonight, but also on the 15th Nov and 2nd Dec! Only reason is because overseas people are coming, and god wonders why they have to come all at the same time...  |
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Post by Si on Oct 21, 2006 18:22:14 GMT
Wish i could go!
I wonder if there are many foreigners intersted in Yaji's in shanghai?..............wishful thinking i suppose
I mantioned cctv 9 cos thats the english language channel
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A number of Sichuan masters play on metal strings on various Hugo CDs. Today the main representative is Zeng Chengwei, who has a very focused, straightforward style. Charlie studied from him for a bit; Charlie, tell us all about him!
