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Post by sylent01 on Mar 26, 2010 3:49:59 GMT
I was just wondering what a good humidity level would be for the maintenance and storage of bamboo flutes. Running my furnace this winter dried the air in my house and cracked my 6 month old Dizi  My thought is to build a humidor/display case for my music room in which I can maintain a consistent humidity- any thoughts? |
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Post by davidmdahl on Mar 26, 2010 7:18:34 GMT
Welcome to the forum, sylent01. Sorry about the dizi. It is possible to fix it by filling in the crack with super glue. You can also hide the crack with some bamboo saw dust packed in after the glue. If you only have one bamboo flute that might take some resourcefulness. Hopefully you have a flute shaped stick that would not suffer the loss of a few bits sanded off.
I don't know what will work for you, but I keep my wooden and bamboo flutes in plastic bags. It tends to slow down the humidity changes. Some people will put a small damp sponge in the bag. I have never tried this. I think it would be too easy to overdo the dampness and grow some mold.
Best wishes,
David
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Post by sylent01 on Mar 27, 2010 6:06:47 GMT
I hate to ruin such a beautiful finish with superglue! You gotta do what you gotta do I suppose- right now its completely unplayable. Thanks David for your suggestions, I'll give it a try.
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Post by theshengplayer on Apr 7, 2010 2:57:15 GMT
An acceptable humidity level might be 45% - 55% (50% might be a better choice). Cheers, Chris  |
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Post by xiaodizimusic on Mar 18, 2012 9:18:17 GMT
Is it true that keeping the bamboo flutes near to a glass water protect them?
And a second question: Is it better to keep the parts of bamboo flutes to be assembled as long as possible?
thanx
best regards
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Post by xindi on Mar 19, 2012 21:56:22 GMT
Yes...I always thought temperate climates with low humidity <40% risked cracking, however I seem to have achieved that, by trying to prevent mine from incurring mould (too much humidity). You can get moisturising flute bags which are humidity controlled for bamboo dizi flutes. Even better - get a rosewood or ebony dizi flute and forget the humidity issues  |
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Post by yudingbon on Mar 20, 2012 2:58:56 GMT
The funny thing is I never had a flute crack on me. I had asked the dizi teacher in my orchestra and he too never had a dizi or xiao crack on him. His other students do, though. There must be something with the age or type of bamboo used. We live in Canada, where the humidity can range from 0-90%; not exactly the best weather for keeping instrument from cracking.
Generally, though, it is not humidity that causes cracking, but rapid change in humidity. If you can prevent rapid humidity change then you can prevent cracking. Plastic bags work well, as does wrapping the instrument in thick, dense cloth, as my shakuhachi playing friend have informed me. As for me, I just put it back in the nice satin/faux suede bag I made for it and then put it in the carrying case. I don't even wipe it out every time; just a qucik hydrogen peroxide wipe once a month for maintenance. Never had any problems this way.
Also, rosewood or ebony does not mean the instrument will not crack. I have seen many a bassoon and oboe crack and they are made from ebony and/or rosewood. Its just that they are more resistant to cracking, since the material is denser. But if they do crack, they CRACK. Example: I saw an oboe's body crack and split into two pieces after the player just walked in from the outside and started playing in the concert hall.
As to keeping the instrument together: I believe the quality of the metal used in the joint is not too good. There tends to be a powdery residue left on the metal after taking them apart (the powder being metal dust from friction). So always taking the instrument apart could eventually wear down the joint and make for a loose fit. Of course, if your dizi are cracking on you, then you would not really worry too much about the metal. Then there is the issue of bending the thin interlocking metal joints (if you don't know what I mean, don't worry about it). So all in all, keep the instrument together for as much as you can. There tend to be less problems that way. Case are also designed for transporting assembled/one piece istruments.
~Lucian
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Post by xiaodizimusic on Mar 20, 2012 7:14:26 GMT
Luckily i never had a flute crack on me too,but maybe it is too early to say,since i got my first chinese flutes 4 months ago. Even they are not rosewood or ebony flutes or the highest quality of bamboo,i like their sound so much...its really magical. Until now i keepp them in their saten bag only.i will think about the plastic bag,i didnt know before.thanx to all
best regards
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Post by Blue on Mar 20, 2012 15:17:28 GMT
Enjoy yudingbon's counterpoint, Xindi Metal tenons will always wear down so by the time you give that flute to your grandchild, you can argue that the tenon will help keep the flute in pitch, but there's no guarantee that the tenon's integrity will survive by then! |
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Post by xindi on Mar 20, 2012 23:52:23 GMT
Haha. Thanks Allen. You know Yudingbon's correct anyway - well it's mostly low humidity which is the problem, since blowing introduces humidity/moisture, so humid areas are more natural for bamboo playing. At least that's what the flute seller said in HK, when he sarcastically commented that it was no surprise I was cracking my dizi flutes, playing for 2 hours outdoors continuously ahem. Don't you use cork grease or vaseline (or lip balm ) on the tenon? You're supposed to ...otherwise you'll grind it to bits and scrape off the metal. At least that's what I was taught to do with the flauto dolce; the Irish flutes and clarinet. I've never seen a bamboo dizi flute survive much more than a decade or so. My Qing Dynasty xiao is exceptional! Well you know that my rosewood Irish flute has made it over 100 years - it plays beautifully *finally*. I'm shouldn't be grumpy that it's taken the better part of 8 months to restore, but I guess I am, after I was told that I should only play it gently for about 15 minutes a time, and oil it every 2 weeks (specialist advice...) to maintain the rosewood. Yes - a few of the Irish flutes I have had cracks, but they seem easier to repair using ebony dust, and the cracks don't make an incursion into the metal lined headjoints .....no such luck with bamboo. Anyway - my cracking bamboo and mould problems are exceptional - don't let me put anyone off |
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Post by Blue on Mar 21, 2012 16:11:01 GMT
lip balm |
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Post by Flolei on Mar 21, 2012 17:36:01 GMT
Allen, I was sure you would notice that! MDR (= French LOL)! You are so funny, guys!!! Best wishes to all of you! Flolei |
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Post by davidmdahl on Mar 22, 2012 17:25:13 GMT
I don't put any lubricant or grease on flute tenons. Anything sticky tends to collect dust and dirt, and can actually make the joint tighter. I wipe off the tenon and join to remove any gunk that is accummulating to keep the surfaces clean.
Best wishes,
David
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Post by Flolei on Mar 24, 2012 15:41:03 GMT
Yes, it's true. Lubricants are OK for cork and wood, for example for recorders or wooden flute, but I noticed that it makes the metal joints even tighter. The solution is, as David said, to clean the tenons regulary. I would add that it is necessary to separate the two parts slowly, with hands as closed as possible to the tenons.
I didn't notice that the metal would be weak, I didn't see any "metal powder" after numberous uses.
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Post by yudingbon on Mar 26, 2012 19:21:22 GMT
Those new silver coloured joints are the ones that tend to powder after multiple removals. The copper ones do not (though this is not an exclusive statement).
The best lubrication for metal is actually soap. A bar of any cheap brand of soap (dry) will make metal move easier. Great for those finer tuner screws that don't like to move (for string players), zippers that always seem to stick, and flute joints that don't want to cooperate. It does not gunk up, does not absorb into the metal, and can be washed off easily if it collect dirts.
I don't use it on my flute joints, as they move just fine, but as a cellist, soap is part of my accessory kit for when those fine tuners stick, or buzz (they fill in the screw gaps).
When taking apart a flute joint, rotate gently while pulling to fascilitate removal. If the joint is very tight, pulling without rotating lends a higher risk of loosening the metal from the bamboo. When putting back together, just push; no need to rotate.
For wood or cork joints (do they exist in the dizi world?) any petroleum based lubricant can work well (vaseline). But if you want something all natural, easily cleaned, and fragrant smelling, beeswax if the way to go. It can also be used to polish the wood to a glossy sheen.
Beeswax also happens to be the time tested and most widely accepted way to fill in cracks. If the crack is stable, the best way to fill it is to rub wax into the crack. If can be easily cleaned if you ever need a more permanant (glue) fix. It also moves with the expansion and contraction of the flute, preventing other cracks from occuring (once again, only if the first crack is stable). Also great as a temporary fix for emergencies (ie. right before a concert).
In summary: keep a bar of soap and a block of beeswax in your case.
~Lucian
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Post by sanmenxia on Mar 27, 2012 15:06:18 GMT
My feeling is to let the bamboo adapt to its surrounding rather than try to control the air humidity etc. After all you have to take it out and play it, you can't keep it in a sealed box forever. I prefer to keep my instruments out of their cases. I don't have a dizi but I've got sheng which is made of bamboo pipes and I wouldn't keep it in a case because moisture builds up inside it after playing and needs to dry off.
The main thing is to avoid sudden changes in temperature and humidity. So for example in cold winter, wrap your instrument in a towel before putting it in your case or bag before taking it outdoors. When you get to your destination, leave it for while to warm up before taking out.
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Post by xindi on Apr 1, 2012 22:58:31 GMT
I don't put any lubricant or grease on flute tenons. Anything sticky tends to collect dust and dirt, and can actually make the joint tighter. I wipe off the tenon and join to remove any gunk that is accummulating to keep the surfaces clean. Haha ...no way. I clean my flutes with OCD I've seen worn tenons - copper/rusty green, nickel tenons, worn down to expose the base layer. Not suggesting that anyone cake their tenon joints with enough lubricant - just enough to stop it from friction scraping. I suppose graphite would be an ideal dry substance which wouldn't require much cleaning. Well ...out playing most of this week, and the temperature never really got higher than 17 degrees outdoors. With breath air coming in at around 37.4C, with 15 minutes, condensation formed on the di mo and killed it....condensed moisture drops dripping from the end of the flute. Not a problem, since I've learnt (the hard way), just to carry two of the same key flutes, and switch over. The amount of moisture was incredible - like I had managed to make both dizis cry with my playing :/ |
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