San Xian

[Dick]

Hello everybody. There seems to be quite a discussion about bridges on the erhu/gaohu/etc.

Does anybody have advice about placement of a san xian bridge? I have an instrument that seems to want the bridge placed over halfway toward the neck from the drum's tail. Is there a prescribed spot for the bridge, or is it a matter of just experimenting til you find the place that balances intonation, range, and tone?

thanks!

[YouLanFengChune]

hmmm.....

I'll check and i'll post here. Not too familiar with san xian. You play san xian too?

[Dick]

Well yes I play san xian a bit, but not like I play flutes.

The story is we brought this really nice instrument back to the US from Beijing last year. We heard that the northern style san xian has fallen out of popularity so badly that no one wants to make them any more. We had an idea this one might be a good gift, or maybe an item to sell. That just didn't work out.

Anyway, I used to play a bit of guitar and jazz bass way back in the old days. As you know my musical studies go back a long way. Figured I might try to transfer the skills and learn a few tunes on this. That's me forever searching. Ha.

[gubaba]

From the guqin pictures thread concerning the use of plectra on the sanxian.

I purchased the sanxian tutorial from CCN to check out the instrument before purchasing one. The tutorial shows finger picks. The tutorial is the worst I have seen. I have for several erhu, a quzheng and a guqin.

I have read that the players don't use picks but my thought was the that people on the VCD are using them and that must be what I need to do.

Thanks for the tip though. Maybe I need to go for anyway.

[Dick]

Well, san xian is much quieter played with fingers, that's for sure. I have seen it done both ways, and also with what looks like a regular guitar pick. My source is various "intro to chinese music" and "chinese rap" videos that we get sometimes from our local Chinese library. Most of these materials originate in Taiwan, it seems.

[lumry]

does anyone have a fingering chart for sanxian?

[lumry]

does anyone know any website that has some san xian videos?...like small clips?

[kyokuhon]

Hi, all,
This is a double post with the "difference between sanxian and shamisen" thread. My apologies if you've already seen the former.

Hi, sanxian lovers,
I just happened upon an intriguing and tantalizing article about sanxian. It was published in 2004 in "Chinese Music" magazine. To synopsize it, after talking about how sanxian, while a very expressive and versatile instrument, is not much used in Chinese orchestras any more, the author Mu Qian tells about how prof. (ret.) Xiao Jiansheng of the China Conservatory of Music (Beijing) and his colleagues Zhao Chengwei and Wang Lifeng (of the Academy of Chinese Traditional Opera) began giving free sanxian classes to try to make sure the tradition didn't die out.
The most intriguing sentence in the article: "These are all included in the TEXTBOOK (my caps) that Xiao and Zhao have compiled for sanxian players." (!!!!)
So, my question to all: Does anyone know any of these musicians, and can we somehow get in touch with them and let them know that there is a small but very interested group of people who would like to know more about sanxian?
I'll try to contact the author through the Chinese Music Association of North America, the publishers of the magazine, and will let you all know what I find out.
I'm also going to double post this in the "san xian" thread to attempt to make sure all interested parties see it.

Best to all, and keep playing.
K.

[kyokuhon]

Hi again,
just thought to look, and found out that CCN has both a VCD instruction and collected pieces book for san xian.
K.

[kyokuhon]

Hi, all,
Just a quick update on my sanxian activities. I've got the VCD instruction series from CNN, and I think gubaba's review may be a bit harsh, though would be better if it contained a music folder, as some of the other instructional VCDs do. I have definitely picked up some tricks from it, though. I'm waiting on the Collected Music book also from CNN.

I was lucky enough to get a decent instrument second hand, and I've been having a great time with it. I've put silk strings on it and like the sound better than the metal ones.

I'm also trying to get in touch with Prof. Zhao Chengwei of the China Conservatory (he made the VCD series, I believe) who is reported to have collected music from many old players around Beijing. If anyone knows how to contact him, I'd appreciate it.

Anybody else doing anything with sanxian?

Best, and keep playing,
K.

[YouLanFengChune]

my orchestra uses san xian a lot, and we have begun experimenting with orders from singapore sanxian. Its a hard work making san xian. and if floridian can kill those pythons for me...

[kyokuhon]

Yes, I hear a lot of sanxian in recordings, at least what sounds like it. If you have any music that you could pass along to me, I'd be most grateful.
I'm sure making sanxian is a lot of work. I've made instruments myself, and can imagine. Has anyone considered using synthetic material, like the Okinawans are doing with sanshin? Frankly, I'd feel better about it if floridian didn't have to do the dirty deed. Then again, I don't have to live with pythons...
Best, and keep playing,
K.

[sanmenxia]

To synopsize it, after talking about how sanxian, while a very expressive and versatile instrument, is not much used in Chinese orchestras any more, the author Mu Qian tells about how prof. (ret.) Xiao Jiansheng of the China Conservatory of Music (Beijing) and his colleagues Zhao Chengwei and Wang Lifeng (of the Academy of Chinese Traditional Opera) began giving free sanxian classes to try to make sure the tradition didn't die out.

If you mean "Chinese orchestras" the large modern concert hall type which is basically copied from the Western symphony orchestra, then I would say there is a lot more to Chinese music than "Chinese orchestra"! The tradition of sanxian playing in Chinese opera, narrative song, small regional ensembles etc (i.e. other types of traditional Chinese music) is surely going to continue whether or not the sanxian is used the modern large Chinese orchestra. Although if the sanxian is not included in the modern large Chinese orchestra, then there are going to be fewer sanxian players in total.

I gather the sanxian has only developed as a solo instrument quite recently, and I guess it is this relatively "tradition" that is in danger of dying out. Of course the old tradition of sanxian playing could be said to be quite rudimentary but it is traditional and is there for accompaniment. I guess the old tradition could also be at risk of dying, but I think that's more to do with people not interested in or wanting to learn "old" music in general.

Xiao Jiansheng playing "thousand year happiness" (wan nian huan):

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bop-lXzdfPM

Zhao Chengwei playing great waves washing the sand (pipa piece):

www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyJe0HdxCyk

Suzhou pingtan:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ML3u8QWCk7w&feature=related

[yafeng]

I just found a you tube of three Mongolia ladies playing a Mongolian folk song on the san xian. It is less than 3 minutes, if you only listen to it once. [
There is also a picture on the sidebar of three ladies introducing a slightly longer clip of a much slower song.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=7G-0qyN2iyY&feature=related
According to the comments, the san xian is called a "shanz" in Mongolia.

[yafeng]

I am a relatively rare visito here. What is this CCN being referred to as a source for a book and CD instructions for the san xian? I just bought a san xian and a pipa on ebay, so I do not have them yet. I also purchased a matouqin.
I have been studying the erhu for a year. My erhu teacher also plays the pipa.
I will be 77 in June, so I will neeed something to keep me off the stree.
I feel that my visits here will become more frequent.

[kyokuhon]

Hi, yafeng and all,
CCN is short for www.chineseculture.net, a source for a lot of Chinese instruments and music, at least for those of us here in the USA. However, I just checked, and they appear not to have any san xian materials any more. I have a book (VERY advanced music), and a DVD set that I got from them years ago. My impression is that traditionally Northern san xian (the big one?) was used mostly to accompany singing, while the small and medium sizes are more used for insturmental music. I'm not sure if, again traditionally, there is much of a solo tradition, and certainly not compared to pipa. I have a da san xian. I love the sound, but it is unweildy, and I frankly don't play it much.
Congratulations on making it to 77! I'll be 60 in April, and that feels old. I look forward to hearing more from you.