dizi help

[maaltan]

i recently purchaced a middle low range dizi as an experiment. It is tuned in D with a tuning joint and made out of white/yellow bamboo.

First experiment is to see if it can withstand the massive fluctuations in humiidy. Results are not too encouraging. We just had a massive drop in humidity (60% monday to 5-10% friday back up to about 30-40 today). I have noticed a few superficial cracks appearing around the tuning joint( which now has come loose from the wrong side and jammed in the side that is supposed to slide). i will attempt to repair this.

Second experiment.. playing the darn thing. I spent 5 seconds gluing on the dimo (sp?) and making the wrinkles as shown in a singular poor picture i found of the membrane up close. I was thinking it cant be that easy and i was right. When the membrane dried it lost all the wrinkles...but i was able to make a sound out of it. I re-moistened it and fiddled with it so much i tore it ..twice.

Would someone be willing to take a good high res picture (or a short video) of a properly tensioned membrane?

After, reading that the cheaper dizis cant deliver the sounds from the membrane properly anyway I following the suggestions from there and decided to effectivly plug the hole with a sheet of printer paper glued on with the a-jiao(sp). i love that glue btw..it smells sort of like chocolate (yes i know its rendered mule skin).. it has just the right amount of tack for gluing paper. It's better than any glue stick ive ever used.

With the membrane i could play the lowest note half the time. the plugged hole makes it so that almost all the notes are windy(it might still be me though). Maybe someone can verify this is the reason why i am losing notes/playability.

Enough analysis. Now for the questions

First about note quality. Which are the easiest to play notes (ie first ones taught)? or better yet what am i doing wrong? here is the quality of the notes( o=open x=closed as played by right handed person):

xxx-xxx almost always windy with the lowest note (5?) being extremely hard to produce

xxx-xxo better and more stable still windy. the first note i can almost produce on cue

xxx-xoo really clear. having problems keeping it from sliding up and down an octave but thats me im sure..but doesnt sound like a dizi (probably dimo and/or quality)

xxx-oxo same
xxo-oxo same
xoo-oxo same
oxo-oxo (cant remember fingering) same
oxx-xxx one octave up. sounds like im playing 2 notes one step or so apart. lots of beating. Tuner cannot lock onto the fundamental tone

second octave is very unstable.

The highest octave is still imposible .. but i didnt expect to play it for a long time.

Basiclly my primary complaint is very windy notes. If i had to compare it to erhu it would be like playing with an unrosined (or very slightly rosined) bow. there is a tone but its almost drowned out by wind.

[blob]

If the notes sound windy, then you are blowing too hard, and your embouchere is not narrow enough, and you are not aiming directly at the "sweet spot" of the blowhole.
Try going easier on the breathing, and narrowing your mouth a little. Change the angle at which you blow into the blow hole too (might be more or less for you, needs experimentation).
But this will be resolved as time goes on with practice. Try to make sure that the stream of air blows somewhat across the middle of blow hole and perpendicular to the flute (if that makes sense).
The theory is very similar to the irish and western flute (try googling flute tone, there are some pretty good explanations on why we get fuzzy and windy notes). It is not exactly the same of course, but you get expanations on why and possible ways of resolving fuzzy notes.

Yes, the dizi sound is very dependent on how you paste the dimo. But it takes a while to experiment. The idea is to get about 6-8 fine wrinkles perpendicular to the flute and also as evenly spread around the middle 2/3s of the blow hole. The parts of the dimo close to the sides (left and right of the membrane hole), I tend to keep flat and wrinkle free.

However, even with a very tight dimo, it should not sound windy, dull yes, but not really windy.
The tightness of the dimo is also very dependent on temperature and humidity. The higher and dryer, the more tight a dimo gets and vice versa.

Easiest note to produce? Hmm, most probably all holes open except for the one nearest the membrane hole.

I will try to get a picture of my dimo on my dizi (when I get the digital camera charged up). it gives me a satisfactory sound, but most probably can be improved still.

for
xxx-xxx you need "less airspeed" but slightly more "air volume", which could translate to opening your mouth slightly larger and going a bit easier on the breathing out.

As you uncover more and more holes, then narrow your mouth shape, when you narrow your mouth shape, you will feel that you need to blow slightly (I mean slightly) harder to get the air out.. this will take experimentation.

The second octave, you need to narrow your mouth even more, and blow slightly harder. When I say blow slightly harder, this is rather misleading as well. Really your lungs should very much output the same amount of air, but on your mouth, when you narrow down the hole, you will feel that the resistance of blowing out will increase a bit, try it. Also, the higher you go, the more important it is to blow a narrow and fast stream of air on the right spot of the blow hole.

Highest octave, this is even more important. Don't go there until you can do the second octave quite well, otherwise you might end up blowing very very hard, getting a very shrill noise that will send neighbours knocking on your door.

Hope this helps

[jetz320]

The wind sound is the blowhole and also the player. It takes years of practice to do the sound perfect without the wind sound.

[davidmdahl]

Setting the dimo just right is critical for a good sound on the dizi. I suggest taping over the membrane hole until you can make a good tone. Once you are confident in your ability to make a good sound in all registers, you can experiment with the reed dimo paper. Then if you are getting a bad sound, you will know it is the dimo rather than your own technique.

It does not necessarily take years to get a good sound. Of course developing the embouchure and breath control does take a while, and the sound gets better over time with effective practice.

Best wishes,

David

[davidmdahl]

maaltan said:

<snip> I have noticed a few superficial cracks appearing around the tuning joint( which now has come loose from the wrong side and jammed in the side that is supposed to slide). i will attempt to repair this.
<snip>
Basiclly my primary complaint is very windy notes. If i had to compare it to erhu it would be like playing with an unrosined (or very slightly rosined) bow. there is a tone but its almost drowned out by wind.

If the dizi is leaking very much through cracks, that might also lead to bad or anemic tone. You could try taping over the cracks to seek if that changes the tone.

Best wishes,

David

[YouLanFengChune]

Hmm.. really sound like a case of case of bad dizi..

and maltaan, you should have emailed me:::
www.cadenzamusic.biz/dimo.pdf

[karmeleon]

Whoa, Ye Laoshi, Thank you for that pictorial instruction! ;D

[YouLanFengChune]

welcome...

[blob]

The pdf is very informative Youlan! Thank you However, the step of adjusting the appropriate tension to get the wrinkles, that takes a long time to get right I think. Some parts are very subtle.. most people just say "pull the dimo till you get the wrinkles", which is far easier said than done... and that depends very much on how you placed the dimo on the hole in the first place, if you placed it slap bang flat, then it might be very tricky to get wrinkles even with pulling the top and bottom parts of the dimo.. which might be why some teachers said to crumple the dimo before pasting, but that might destroy a good dimo...

[YouLanFengChune]

well, there are many ways to cook an egg, but so long as its tasty, it ok. right?

[jetz320]

That's kind of what I do. But, I've seen when people in my orchestra's dizi's sound dulls, then just exhale on the membrane to make it moist and then they can adjust the dimo again to form more wrinkles.

[YouLanFengChune]

bad idea. What you should do is to cover all holes, and "HOOOOOOT" into the dizi to loosen it

[maaltan]

thanks for all the help, it sounds tons better.

the main part was the cracks. i taped them and it was better. They looked superficial but i think it loosened the tuning joint just enough to screw things up. I will wait till it stablizes a bit more and patch it up with some sort of joint filling glue or wood putty. i think i saw something that patches and prevents checks in wood from growing. That would probably work well if i could remember what it was.

then i tightened the lips more and it was better. actually the first note i played with minimal wind was in the highest octave. My ear is still ringing my cats were never really bothered by my erhu but they go insane when im "playing" (read torturing) the dizi. the run under the bed and will not go anywhere near the evil noise stick I noticed one getting close to sniff it where i laid it down. I whistled and the cat stuck to the ceiling so to speak. sorry im mean sometimes. Maybe they wont chew on it now like they keep trying to do to my erhu bow when i slow down.

I tried applying the dimo again and it was great. How can a piece of onion skin like tissue increase its volume so much? hmm onion skin... wonder if that will work. It is 1 cell thick (common microscope objective in school) and thats what the dimo membrane stuff reminded me of the first time i saw it. hmm must find onion.

Now for permanant fixes and other tweaks.

[YouLanFengChune]

hehehe

the next step is to try how fast can u do it. Orchestra practise: we keep a few pieces of preprepared dimo in a case. IN CASE we have an accident on stage. As for the erjiao, we LICK it. HAHAHAHAHA

[YouLanFengChune]

fill up crack with superglue, and sandpaper across the crack. The shavings of bamboo will fill the crack

[maaltan]

moderately offtopic

www.nutritionalwellness.com/nutrition/herbs/g/gelatin.php

interesting. I was trying to figure out who was the first one that ate donkey hide glue to test its curative properties when in reality ive already eaten a lot of it today (well the modern version at least).

hmm onion skin and jello on a pvc pipe with holes drilled in it... interesting.

[twilgihtbliss]

So Er Jiao is Gelatin ;D

[song]

Dear all,

Here is my humble contribution on how to fix the dimo onto the dizi.

Its a video I've just made.
The full version(6.5mb): www.eason.com.sg/docs/How-to-fix-the-dimo.wmv
The shorter version(4.8mb) : www.eason.com.sg/docs/How-to-fix-the-dimo(short).wmv

Thanks,
Sung Wah

[blob]

Oh hohoho! The materials get better and better all the time :-D Looks like an "on the fly" adjustment whilst playing chengli de yueguang. Don't do that when hands are oily or wet, or when the a-jiao has set though.. :-)

[YouLanFengChune]

Great Materials. However i have some suggestions (this is strictly academic)
1. Did he turn the dimo such that the Natural Grains and Artificial grains are perpendicular? In a 1970s book from Tianjin by Lu Feng Shan and Lu Jin Shan, and one 1990s book by Zhan Yong Ming, they had stressed it to be so. This will ensure that dimo is balanced on ALL ANGLES and that the pressure across the membrane stays the same.

2. Application of water first, then the Jiao, usually is the cause of excess water, and a lack of jiao. The dimo may not last. (there are many methods to this)

3. ALWAYS (oh, i screamed hard at my students regarding this) use your little finger to have a little dig on the dimo whole AFTER applying ERJIAO Before applying dimo. excess jiao hitting the part of the membrane supposed to vibrate kills the dimo, dulls the sound

4. avoid (i'm guilty of these at times too..hehehe) touching the dimo a you have seen our demonstrator did. As far as possible, use your breathe to hit the dimo. Cover all the holes,and cover the blowhole with yor mouyth, and have short burst of air, going HOOOOOT.

I'm great friends with eason, and i hope these can be contributory to the studies of everyone in the long run. whatever expressed above is strictly my opinions and tried and tested by my students and seniors. I hope we find this useful. I welcome and contribution. Yeah!~

[maaltan]

ahhh... very helpful video. i was getting the dimo too wet. i was basically soaking it so it would adhere tightly to the bamboo. No wonder i had problems with it shrinking. It sounds like a dizi now

That stuff is alot tougher than it looks (and weaker...if that makes sense). i never dared wadding it up..then again it "runs" like pantyhose or a plastic snackfood bag... once it starts tearing in one direction it wont stop.

[song]

By the way that wasn't me in the video if you're wondering.

Shave off 20 years, lose the fats and glasses - maybe.

Regards,
Sung Wah

[jetz320]

Nice video. I do the same thing but it's not as easy though! I try over and over, am I missing something? First, you soak the dimo and then scrunch it all up together, unwrap it and then finally paste it on? I think I'm not doing that right then. Thanks sung wah! The D key dizi I bought from you has great sound even with the crappiest dimo I have!

[YouLanFengChune]

!!!!!!

soak the dimo??!!??!! NEVER! oh no!