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Post by Si on Oct 23, 2006 15:19:12 GMT
so have you sorted out were you will study then?
do you think he wants to train an apprentice?
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Post by Charlie Huang on Oct 23, 2006 17:08:12 GMT
Currently, I have a good chance of getting into Sheffield and so am going to apply there. The thing to do now is to decide which degree programme to do; either MA Ethnomusicology or MMus by research.
I'm thinking of doing the MMus coz it sounds simple and more specialised than the MA (which is a degree that trains you to do doctoral research), the MMus assumes you can carry out research to a certain degree. In the MMus, you do two of the following; dissertation, folio, performance, composition. I'm thinking od doing the dissertation (20,000 words) and the 45 min performance/recital.
Here's my watered-down research proposal:
The research will be on the styles/schools of qin music. I will be trying to discover what are the differences between the various styles, what consitutes as a difference in style, can the style of qin music be divided into Northern and Southern style or is it really better to distinguish them further into schools. For my main area of research, I will use mainly the primary source of qinpu (qin tablature collections) from various schools and analysing a selection of melodies, especially the same melodies that exist in different qinpu but are a different version to one another, so examining the differences and similarities of structure, phrasing, unique passages. Further to that will be examining of actual performance recordings of interperatation of these scores as well as transcription and how accurate they are and whether it is the player that defines style or the original score. The practical side of the submission will be a recital of several of versions from different schools of the said piece(s) to demonstrate my thesis, including a delivery on the recital, etc.
So, how does that sound? Is that a good proposal and I have got enough experience to carry out an advanced piece of research or do you think I should do the MA Ethnomusicology degree to train myself in research before my PhD instead?
I'm not gonna ask ZCW to 'train me'! It is mostly research observation for the PhD, which will analyse qin construction and how it differs between makers, etc. Research porposal for that is too long to cover here.
Also, in between the Masters degree and doctoral research, I'll go to the Shanghai Conservatory to train in guqin as an advance student to get my qin skills up a few notches as well as make necessary connections and learn Mandarin before I go back to Blighty to register a plan for the PhD. I don't know what insititution I will do my PhD in, probably SOAS or back at Sheffield (I'd prefer SOAS because it's close to where the action and resources are). Oxford is another option (because they got a copy of Yugu Zhai QP there) but it might be too much work there (you have to do examinations regularly there).
Another factor is what academic dress will I be entitled to wear once I graduate!
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Post by Si on Oct 24, 2006 3:25:04 GMT
Well I hope your research will be available in English to all us qin lovers!!!
If your funds on scholorship can handle it - why cant you also interview players who have been taught under a specific school. That would be very interesting I think. I think that would be totally essential because what i have discovered in my short life as a gu chin novice is that alot of the stuff my teacher tells me to go is not shown in the qin pu ( like all the thumb pressing manouvers etc).
My teacher is from the Mei An school and she always tells me that one of the characteristics of Mei an is using alot of the thumb to press a few strings continuously.
So you can do the MMu forst then later do the PHD - that sounds great to me. I wonder if its possible to access research and dissertaions on line - for the guqin they will all be written in chinese though!
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Post by Charlie Huang on Oct 24, 2006 9:14:48 GMT
It's obviously going to be in English as I'm doing it in the UK (hardly can write a proper essay in Chinese nevermind)!
Interviewing players; very good idea, but I can only do limited stuff there as it can reach PhD level in substantiality (requiring a trip to China and a complete exploration of all schools, which is beyond me at the mo.). It is only a small original research Masters; aim is to anaylse theory behind the differences in scores more than practice which is the supplimentary to the thesis. Of course, it could turn into MPhil, but that's basically a pre-PhD thesis and I'd rather save that for later than go straight to it as I don't think I have the necessary skills until I complete my Masters degree.
Anyways, that will be decided later if my supervisor thinks I can do it. Also, potenetially, my supervisor could be Prof Jonathan Stock.
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Post by Si on Oct 24, 2006 10:18:44 GMT
didnt this mr stock write a book about chinese instruments?
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Post by Charlie Huang on Oct 24, 2006 12:48:21 GMT
Yep. He wrote one about Ah Bing as well...
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Post by davidmdahl on Oct 24, 2006 16:54:39 GMT
That would be cool if you could get to work with Prof. Stock. I have his Abing book and found it a fascinating read.
Best wishes,
David
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Post by SCWGuqin on Oct 24, 2006 18:05:37 GMT
Charlie - your proposal for research on qin schools sounds fascinating. I find the idea of 'qin schools' compelling because (1) as a concept it brings some order to the huge number of qin players and materials, and (2) lineage/affiliation is a key part of human identity and considering someone part of 'a particular tradition' generates associations (aesthetic, historical, etc.) you couldn't get otherwise.
One question, as you note, is to what extent there really is such a thing as a qin school these days. It would have been more feasible for regional schools to remain distinct before, say, the 20th century (with improved transport/communication and mass media). Today, very few people have NOT been deeply influenced by the masters at the top (GPH, WJL, LXT, GY, etc.). For instance, my teacher's training was in the Mei'an style, but she mainly plays pieces associated with GPH and WJL, albeit in a distinctive style. Beyond interpretation of scores and phrases etc. you might even want to look very specifically at the physical techniques used. I've heard bits and pieces about, say, GY having distinctive ways of stopping strings that he's transmitted to his students. Sichuan has an unusual gunfu technique, Mei'an uses a lot of thumb joint, etc.
Plus there's the whole fact that qin is such an individual art. For instance: GPH, Yang Baoyuan, and Guan Zhonghang share one or two teachers; they share "grand-teacher" (Huang Mianzhi) with Le Ying and Pu Xuezhai. This group of players is often recognized as a pai of sorts, but if I didn't know that, would I really hear the similarities I allege to hear?
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Post by Charlie Huang on Oct 24, 2006 22:13:05 GMT
Yes, one of my main aims is to see what defines as a 'school' or 'style'. GY said there are just two, Northern and Southern. Of course, it all depends on how you look at it. Is it technique, scores or attitude? Location? Etc.
More later!
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Post by Si on Oct 25, 2006 10:04:36 GMT
So i wonder what are the main diffs between north and south - due to shear didtance i would imaginf the there should be a western school as chengdu is a long way from the rest.
Maybe schools are not so relevant these days of travel about china - but maybe your study can seek to answer this question and then talk about how there is or might be a north south divide these day that replaces "schools".
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Post by SCWGuqin on Oct 25, 2006 20:46:17 GMT
I think by "northern and southern" GY most likely means "GPH/WJL/ZFX lineage vs. ZZQ/guangling/fanchuan/mixed lineage-in-Shanghai". e.g. northern vs. southern conservatory styles. Any other formulation would be reductive. You can't discount things like Lingnan, Sichuan, or Zhucheng/Mei'an. I'd like to hear GY's explanation.
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Post by Charlie Huang on Nov 3, 2006 14:05:11 GMT
OK, I need to find out if anyone has done similar research (preferably in the last two years) on qin schools/styles so I can indicate it on my research proposal. I got down one or two books which discusses qin schools.
1. Zhang Huaying's "Gu Qin" (2005, pg 129-174), has a good section and analysis of them. 2. Xu Junyue and Xu Xiaoying's "Zhe-pai Guqin Yishu" (2006), mostly a complete study of the Zhe School, but has some comparison of a few pieces from other schools, etc. 3. Guo Ping's "Guqin Congtan" (2006, pg 159-170), has a good short study on qin schools.
Anymore books/papers will greatly benefit me.
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Post by Si on Mar 9, 2007 4:57:03 GMT
CCC - Just interested to know how are youre study plans going?
(the qin forum has been rather quiet these past few weeks....)
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Post by Charlie Huang on Mar 9, 2007 8:46:14 GMT
Currently, moved my plans to applying for SOAS instead. I'm dragging my heels, must get the application sorted out!
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Post by Charlie Huang on Mar 11, 2007 16:20:57 GMT
Thinking about it, SOAS looks like a difficult place to get in to, plus, the tutition fee is rather a tad high! Maybe Sheffield was a better choice afterall...
Anyways, even if I do get a place, I still have to obtain funding from the research councils and dear me, they are very tough! I might get a place at uni but the funding maybe the thing that stops me!
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Post by calden on Mar 11, 2007 20:45:37 GMT
Charlie:
This topic fascinates me. Now that my kids are in the final stages of high school, I'm pondering what to do next. (I retired early from my job as a family psychologist in order to be the stay home parent in the family so my wife could teach.) I am continuing my Chinese studies and erhu studies, with some vague notion of returning to either Mainland or Taiwan (Singapore sounds nice, too) for an extended period, say six months, to really do some good music study.
In recent months I've pondered applying for a PhD program for ethnomusicology. I think I would benefit greatly from defining exactly what it is I'm going over to China for - I could really have some focus. I've got the funds, and will have the time, to go over and simply rent a room and play music, but it would be great to go and have a field work focus. I could really see a dissertation topic something like how Western music has affected contemporary erhu styles in recent years - lots of recording in large cities and smaller towns.
My appetite is only being whetted by reading all this talk of defining qin styles and influences. I'm going to hold you fully responsible for the cost of a PhD.
Carlos, PhD
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Post by Charlie Huang on Mar 11, 2007 21:31:36 GMT
I have a student debt of over £10,000 ($20,000), so you will have to find funding yourself!
Charlie, MMus (Londin.), DPhil (Oxon.)
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Post by Si on Mar 12, 2007 4:51:42 GMT
Makes he relieved that when I was at Uni our gracious UK government actually gave us money to study (grant). I think these things dont exist now.
Calden - your plans sound rather interesting. You could do a bit of busking in China, but I cant be responsible if you are arrested, as busking just does not seem to exist here. You will be arrested for causing a crowd Hahahaha
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Post by Charlie Huang on Mar 12, 2007 17:23:21 GMT
Makes he relieved that when I was at Uni our gracious UK government actually gave us money to study (grant). I think these things dont exist now. Exactly. And they want 50% of the population to have had univeristy education by 201X... As for the House of Lords reform, I still think they should replace the hereditary peers with academics (i.e. uni postgraduates who have sat and passed a civil service exam) who at least know what they are talking about.
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Post by Si on Mar 26, 2007 16:22:32 GMT
Anyone (well CCC realy) ever heard of these 2 qin makers. They seem to make alot of the qins that are sold in Shanghai.
Ma Wei Heng - from Jinag su, Yangzhou
Ni Shi Yun - Jiangsu, a place placed Hi men
if you dont have any info on them ill ask more about them quality wise etc.
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Post by Charlie Huang on Mar 26, 2007 20:30:24 GMT
I've heard of Ma Weiheng but not Ni Shiyun. I can't comment because I don't think I've played on a MWH before (or I have but forgot).
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