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Newbie
Oct 24, 2004 1:50:31 GMT
Post by gubaba on Oct 24, 2004 1:50:31 GMT
I have purchased an instrument from an eBay source. I had never seen an instrument but I got this Chinese Music thing going and so I am trying various instruments.
The instrument feels right. I like to set it on my knees to play and it is all good.
I am struggling with tuning mostly. I have broken strings 6 and 7 and have torn the one of the peg cords. I am tring to get replacements from Beijingers.
I find it difficult to get string 6 to C and string 7 to D without the string twisting. Other than the knot on the string what keeps the string from twisting? Is the string twisting an issue?
Any advice would be helpfull.
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Newbie
Oct 24, 2004 12:17:12 GMT
Post by Charlie Huang on Oct 24, 2004 12:17:12 GMT
Firstly, you should avoid purchasing qins (or any type of instrument for that matter) from places like ebay. They are more likely to be of inferior quality. Better to have a teacher select it in a music shop than to buy at places not knowing what to aim for. You should play it on a table. Though it is acceptable to play it on the knees, you shouldn't begin like that. You don't need to tune it exactly to the prescribed pitches, C D F G A c d (Bei Huangzhong, Bei Taicu, Bei Zhonglü, Bei Linzhong, Bei Nanlü, Huangzhong, Taicu). You just need the strings to have an accurate pitch, be tight enough to avoid buzzing sounds, then tune the other strings in correspondance to that, for it to be satisfactory. Tuning the third string to F (Zhonglü) and the others in prescribed pitch is only required in duets with xiao, etc, where you want to be in the same key as your accompaning instrument. The Rong ko (cords) can be made by yourself. Go here for a brief description: www.tcfb.com/guqin. Tells you how to string the instrument as well as othert practical issues. The string shouldn't 'twist', as the butterfly knot stops this. Or are you on about the string 'slipping' (i.e. when you reached the maximum tension on the cord and you can't tune it any higher)? If so, then you need to restring the string more tighter. You need to explain more properly if you want a more specific reponse. Also, it would be best to find a guqin player in your area that can explain things more detailed and give hands on experience.
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Newbie
Oct 26, 2004 2:22:51 GMT
Post by blueharp on Oct 26, 2004 2:22:51 GMT
Not all instruments on Ebay are inferior. I purchased an extremely rare vielle (medieval fiddle) made by an almost legendary maker on Ebay after searching fruitlessly for a used one for over 25 years.
It required some minor repairs and new strings, but was in otherwise perfect condition. I consider it to be a treasure without price.
My guqin came from Ebay and it has a quite nice sound. Is it a master made instrument? I doubt it, but at a recent yaji it received quite a bit of praise.
On the other hand I also purchased a gold pedal harp described as in superb condition for over $13,000 US. When it finally arrived it reeked of cat urine and had been used as a scratching post for many years. On top of that it required *at least* $15,000 US in repairs just to make it playable. Fortunately I was able to get my money back (minus $400+ in shipping).
As with buying anything sight unseen - Caveat Emptor! Just make sure you can get a refund if the item is completely unsatisfactory or that the seller has good feedback for similar items.
Now about the rong-ko. The best material is silk beading thread in size FF or FFF. In a pinch embroidery floss from a craft store will work.
Mr. Gong Yi demonstrates how to make them in his VCD tutorial. You cut about 11 pieces of thread to length (about 24" or 60 cm).
Then one end of the bundle is held in your teeth while the other end is twisted clockwise between the palms of your hands.
When you think it is twisted tightly enough pull the rong-ko out straight with your left hand and using your right thumb and forefinger grab the middle, pull it to your right as you bring the left end toward the other end in your teeth keeping the embryonic rong-ko stretched tight.
Carefully remove the bundle from your teeth with your left hand. Holding both ends firmly in your left hand release the right. It should coil up nicely and all you do is knot the end.
Threading it through the peg is easier if you use a carpet needle or small tweezers (forceps) to pull it through the side hole.
It takes some practice, but isn't all that difficult. It's *much* easier to learn when you see it being done.
The twisting happens when the rong-ko is too tight from being twisted too much. Lower the pitch a few turns of the peg and use the tuning device on the back to raise the pitch of the string, then fine tune with the peg. If the rong-ko is too long you will have to slacken the string, shorten the rong-ko, and then try again.
Do you know how to tie the "fly's head" knot? If not use something like a leather shoelace to practice it, then the old guqin string - which will be much stiffer and more difficult to work with - BEFORE attempting to tie the knot on your new string. I ruined a few strings before I got the hang of the knot.
Hope this helps.
Steve
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Newbie
Oct 26, 2004 12:13:34 GMT
Post by Charlie Huang on Oct 26, 2004 12:13:34 GMT
Oh yes, forgot to ask. Does your guqin use the new tuning device? It should be a piece of wood with steel pegs sticking out of it, where each string is coiled around. If so, then you don't need to re-string. Just do as Blueharp-san says, loosen the string by turning the tuning pegs, then tighten it at the tuning device end.
If you don't have the new tuning device, i.e. the strings are wrapped directly onto the goose feet, then it will require re-stringing. Even if you have the new tuning device, it would be good to at least familiarise yourself with the traditional way to mount the strings. To do this, unwrap all the strings of the inner goose feet (i.e. strings 5, 6 and 7) remembering to slacken them first at the tuning pegs. Grab a cloth and coil the end of the 5th string around it. Place your qin on a cushioned chair or bed, vertical with the top of the qin facing to your left. Take the coiled string with your right. Draw the string over the Dragon's Gum (the tail of the qin) making sure the string slips in its slot, back and towards the inner goose feet (the one away from you). Make sure the butterfly knot is the right way up and that its more or less center of the bridge (if not, you need to adjust the lenght of the rong ko). Now grip the top of the qin at the Dragon's Gum with your left, then pull down hard with your right. Use your left hand to pluck the string to check its pitch (which should be more or less higher than the one above it). After you reached a satisfactory tension and pitch, wrap the end of the string clockwise on the goose feet, keeping the tension. Make sure the in coming string is tight against the body of the qin. When you nearly reached the end of the string, remove the cloth and tuck the end between the incoming string and the body of the qin, and pull tight. Then, using the same method, string on 6 and 7. The stringing of 1, 2, 3 and 4 are the same, but the are wrapped around the outer goose feet, and the direction of wrapping is counter-clockwise. If the tuning is too low, then you will have to re-string it again.
It takes a great deal of effort, strength and patience to string it the traditional way. At first, it took me several attempts of back aching work to string it to a satisfactory level. After much practice, I can string it with no problems and to a higher tuning. The new tuning device is best used if you don't have the time, patience or strength to string it the traditional way.
And yes, this method is given on the website I gave above, as well the diagram of how to tie the knot, etc.
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Newbie
Oct 30, 2004 3:09:12 GMT
Post by gubaba on Oct 30, 2004 3:09:12 GMT
Yes, my instrument has the new style block/pins tuning device. I also notice from the picture of your qin that my knots are probably too low. I should be able to get this thing back together as soon as I get my new strings.
The tuning to something other than standard sounds like a good idea. What gets really confusing is trying to make sense out of sources like Lieberman's Mei-an ch'in-p'u translation. The book sort of starts in the middle and doesn't explain things that someone like me can get a hold of without a teacher. I have played piano and trombone for many years but making the leap to Eastern notation, etc is difficult. Not impossible and not difficult enough to make me stop.
Chances of a qin teacher in Western New York are remote. I have checked with friends in the local Chinese community and as best as I can tell there is one erhu player in the area, no other musicians, period. My only hope will be sources like this site and whatever else I can dig up.
As this is a sort of voyage of discovery, I also have an erhu, a pipa and a guzheng. I have gathered them up over the past year and have given each of them a try. I have been using VCD's and whatever books I can find as teaching material.
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Newbie
Nov 2, 2004 6:20:55 GMT
Post by blueharp on Nov 2, 2004 6:20:55 GMT
That's the joy of this wonderful forum - getting help with questions! ;D I am also studying guqin without a teacher and will gladly share what I know. What sort of questions do you have? There are several guqin people in New York City and environs. Perhaps it may be worthwhile to take a trip for a weekend for a coaching session. A link you may find useful is: www.newyorkqin.org/You may already have it. This one has some info on Liu Li. She is also in the greater NYC area and among other things played guqin on the Hero soundtrack. www.melodyofdragon.org/In my opinion the best of the VCDs for guqin is the one by Master Li Xiangting. What I like about it is that there are 4 pieces in a booklet, the 4 are performed and then explained in detail section by section. One has the opportunity to study the transcribed notation with the tablature underneath AND associate it with movements. Let me know if I can help. Steve
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Newbie
Nov 7, 2004 3:54:35 GMT
Post by gubaba on Nov 7, 2004 3:54:35 GMT
Thanks a bunch.
I have the same VCD tutorial and I have located probably all of the sites that have guqin content.
It is up to me to dig into what I got and if I get stuck I'll try here. I have also picked up a few tips from the erhu and guzheng threads.
I hope the forum stays up!
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