Scarlet Bird Erhu

[carol]

Has any one tried a Scarlet Bird Erhu before?
I'm thinking about getting one for my friend's dad.
I heard its much louder and deeper, just like their guzheng. But I have never seen one.

[paulv]

Hi Carol,
I never heard/tried a Scarlet Bird erhu, but my teacher has several erhus ranging from custom standard erhus to eq-quan erhus which are about 2-3 inches longer at the neck and a slightly larger diameter resonator box. I have noticed a distinctively louder, deeper sound from the er-quan erhus.

I currently have a standard sized erhu and another custom built standard sized erhu waiting for me in China at my sister-in-law's house. Although I wanted an er-quan erhu, my wife reminded me that two erhus will be enough for me!!

Regards,
Paul Valente

[davidmdahl]

I have not heard or played a SB erhu to the best of my knowledge. I wonder what they do with the design to make it different from the garden variety. As Paul mentions, the dimensions could be slightly larger as on an erquan model, but this would not exactly be a radically new design. I think that the sound quality depends quite a bit on the snake skin, strings, and bridge, so a larger resonator will not quite do it alone.

I saw a so-called "Ah Bing" erhu at a shop in San Francisco a few months ago, but did not recognize the maker's mark. Carlos Alden brought his new huqin to Portland a while back. I don't remember the particular variety of huqin, but it was a little larger and had a lovely sound. Hey Carlos, is it any louder than a typical erhu? My zhonghu is a lot larger than an erhu and the sound is great, although it does not seem louder than my erhu. If wood matters, maybe a sandalwood zhonghu would be louder.

A good gaohu is quite loud. I wonder if it is due to the cylindrical shape of the resonator in contrast to the more typical six or eight sides of an erhu. It would interesting to play on a erhu-sized gaohu, if that makes any sense, in other words a erhu with a cylindrical resonator.

Are there any photos on the web of a SB erhu?

Best wishes,

David

[carol]

Thanks Paul and David.

What is an eq-quan erhu?
I want to get something special for this uncle. He has helped me a lot this year. He is an erhu player, but hasn't been playing for years. Recently, he joined the Caozhou ensemble here, so I thought I can give him a new erhu.

Scarlet Bird first came in my mind, cause I read an article about the innovataion in 2004. I can't find that article now. I think its called qin-hu.

[davidmdahl]

The "erquan" in erquan erhu is simply a shorthand reference to the great tune by Ah Bing, Er Quan Ying Yue or "The Moon Reflected on the Second Springs". As I understand it, Ah Bing tuned his erhu a lot lower than is common today, and often times his music is played at a lower pitch to sound more like he intended. An erquan or Ah Bing erhu is just intended to be played at a lower pitch for playing Er Quan Ying Yue and other erhu music by Ah Bing. I am more likely to use my zhonghu for Ah Bing when I feel the need to play so low.

The name qin-hu would be interesting because it turns around the name of the two-string fiddle family, the huqin. I am interested in the article if you can find it again. If it is only in Chinese, I can at least give it to my teacher for a translation.

Best wishes,

David

[Charlie Huang]

I thought he tuned it lower because he used silk strings, which would break if he tuned it any higher...

[paulv]

Charlie,
That's an interesting thought. I didn't know that silk strings wouldn't be able to stand the difference of one whole step (C-G as opposed to the rest of us, D-A).

Would this also apply to your guqin?

Regards,
Paul Valente

[davidmdahl]

According to a book I am reading about Abing "Musical Creativity in Twentieth Century China" by Jonathan Stock, Abing tuned his erhu to G and D, a fifth below the modern typical tune of D and A. I don't know much about the strength of silk strings, so it is hard for me to say if Abing tuned as he did for preference or practicality. I have read that the jinghu is still sometimes strung with silk, and it is tuned an octave above the erhu. Of course, a shorter string is used so it may not be a fair comparison.

I have noticed that many folk/traditional musicians from China and Vietnam, particularly from older generations, like to tune low. I asked my 89 year old Saigon master which notes my dan nhi (Vietnamese erhu) should be tuned to, and he seemed not to quite understand my question at first. Ultimately the answer was "whatever you like, of course." I have to admit that much of the most expressive of Chinese and Vietnamese music sounds more tasty at a low pitch. I think that often times the instruments work best at a low pitch as well.

Best wishes,

David

[calden]

David:

I should have known you'd be reading Jonathan Stock's book. I read it a few years ago, and really soaked up the tunes on the accompanying CD. I love the research that shows that Ah Bing probably got the main melody for Er Quan Ying Yue from listening to the prostitutes luring in clients with pretty songs.

My Er Quan erhu is made by Wan Guo Xing, and it sure does have a nice sound, doesn't it? I use it for a bunch of other tunes actually, not having finished slogging all the way through Er Quan.

Reading all this about the different erhus really makes me want to move to Shanghai for a year or two and really study, and play a whole bunch of different instruments.

Carlos

[davidmdahl]

So you have already read Jonathan Stock's book? I guess we will have yet another subject to discuss the next time you roll into town. I found particularly interesting the revelations about Erquan, such as the fact that it the actual spring has a roof over it, preventing any reflections from the moon. Apparently the title was not original with Abing, but conjured with Abing's help by the fellow who recorded the performances.

I do hope to have another chance to try out your Erquan erhu. The zhonghu is lovely but not so nimble as the erhu. Something in between would be fun for milking expressive tunes.

Best wishes,

David

[Charlie Huang]

Are you talking about THE Jonathan Stock of Sheffield University? I've met him at the summer school where he did an interesting talk. I heard interesting stories about him from one that shall not be named.

Anyways, the silk string thingy was brought up at Hu Bin's talk where she said that about silk strings. Plus, she said that you can't hit many higher notes with silk strings...
As for silk string strenght, yes they are very strong, I could tune third string to F (though you don't need to tune it that high coz it will break more easily). With erhu, I think silk strings will break more easily and more often if tuned too high. That or A Bing's strings were too expensive or he couldn't afford a new set if they broke, or their quality was not up to scratch.

[calden]

Yep, Jonathan Stock.

After I read his book I emailed him and discussed the interesting similarities between Chinese traditional music and Irish traditional music, and that I had incorporated erhu into some of my musical performances as an Irish musician. He said that he also heard the similarities but found that two strings limited him. A lot of the Irish tunes go up an octave for the second half, taking the A part melody then elaborating on it in the B part in that way. Lots of second and third position jumping around.

Another interesting wayguoren is Jeremy Moyer, who has put out a CD of traditional peasant tunes from Taiwan, playing (for the most part) a bamboo shell erhu (can't recall the Chinese name offhand). He's originally from Eastern Canada, and I heard some of his material feel like some of the very early (17th century) French-Canadian fiddle tunes. He agreed with me on that one. Seriously interesting. He's now back in Shanghai studying again.

I just this morning heard on NPR (public radio in the US) a great story about a group of US cowboy musicians who went to Mongolia recently on a cultural exchange trip. After a few performances, they got to jamming and learning each other's tunes. They already had a lot in common - grasslands, herding and roping range animals, grit in the teeth, icy cold winds, blazing hot sun, etc. etc. They found a great deal in common musically, too. Go see:

www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5028282

In fact it always surprised me when there are NOT correlations between Chinese and Eurpean/American traditional folk music. I'm constantly stunned when listeners who hear Chinese music approach me and ask if "they use some odd scale" and are surprised when they learn it's pretty much the same 12 notes, mostly 8, and a lot of pentatonic, and that there are a lot of simliarities with Celtic traditional music (Irish, Scottish, Breton, Welsh, etc.) Their ears want to hear this as foreign and alien, when in fact it's quite familiar once they get past the different sounds of the instruments themselves.

I'm glad I'm continuing to pursue Chinese again - it's been a little over a year since I've re-enlisted with a tutor. SOMEDAY I'll get back to the land of erhu in the park in the morning, jingju in the evenings, and shui jiao for lunch every day. This is, of course, assuming I live in Qingdao againwhere the shui jiao is second to none.

Carlos

[carol]

Isn't G and D the old way of tuning? I think the "1" of guzheng used to be tuned in G. Most of the 16-stringed guzhengs are stilled tuned in G now.
If played in an ensemble, I guess they all have to tune in the same tuning back then.

[carol]

I guess the qin-hu means the erhu of the qin area. Qin here means the Xi'an area, because that's where it is invented.

I can't find that article any more, but here is something similar:
public.ntem.tj.cn/kjjx4/0812_kj_2.htm

[sanmenxia]

Is "Scarlet Bird" a brand name? I asumme it's not a type of erhu. I've never heard of it either. Got any more info or pics?

I've got the Jonathan Stock book, although the music theory's too advanced for me, it's an excellent book.

Erquan string are just thicker erhu strings, you can't really just tune your erhu down to G,D, the strings'll go all slack and sound feeble.
On the Wang Yongde VCD, the erhu used for erquan seems to be a mid range erhu (8 sided Beijing type with machineheads), probably with erquan strings. All other erhus were of the Suzhou type.

[paulv]

Never read Dr. Stock's book, but I have read his Ah-Bing website and it is excellent .

Here's the URL if anyone needs it: www.shef.ac.uk/music/staff/js/AbPref.html.

Enjoy.....


Regards
Paul Valente

[Charlie Huang]

Yes, that's him. I noticed that he uses the word 'cute' in his talks, which I thought charming. I also heard that he's a workaholic, bad-tempered if you push him too far and that he pissed off a lot of academics for jumping from PhD to full professor skipping lecturer and senior lecturer...

[paulv]

Charlie,
There are many PhD's like that where I work, and in spite of their knowledge (which I could benefit from), I try and stay away from them -- I don't need the stress and aggravation at this point of my life!

Regards,
Paul Valente