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Post by valdae on Apr 10, 2012 21:49:17 GMT
Since this is my first post let me tell you a bit about myself. I'm a librarian at a University. I have been playing the zhongruan since July of 2009 . Since I could find no instruction in English I used my own tuning of F C G D. My approach is basically Western . I have waited a long time for an English forum on the instrument and found this site by accident! In any case, it's great to finally be able to converse with other players of this unique instrument.
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Post by edcat7 on Apr 10, 2012 23:20:12 GMT
Hi Valdae Welcome. the standard tuning for the liuqin/zhongruan is G D G D.
It would be great if you know someone in the Far East who could send you a zhongruan book. It can be played like a guitar but no or fewer chords. i've heard my teacher play 'Patience' by Take That during a gig so it is possible.
I can't play the guitar, though I had a few lessons a couple of decades ago (I have just bought an ukulele for light relief) and would love to play my all-time favourite pop song on it: Donovan's Catch the Wind.
The bridge on the zhongruan may need adjustment to sound it's best; don't just rely on the pencil-mark.
Since David has a zhongruan book and since my computer skills are so dire could David upload a fingering chart for it please ?
We would all love to hear some of your recordings.
Best wishes
Ed
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Post by valdae on Apr 11, 2012 1:00:23 GMT
“Hi Valdae Welcome. The standard tuning for the liuqin/zhongruan is G D G D.â€
Oh I know. My reasoning for going with F C G D was the fact that there was no instructional media in English. I joined a forum on string instruments at the time, of course there was little on the ruan, but a player suggested the tuning to me. If I recall correctly, it is the same tuning as the Irish cittern, and I was to learn later it is also the same tuning as the Arabic oud – backwards! Go figure.
“It would be great if you know someone in the Far East who could send you a zhongruan book. It can be played like a guitar BUT NO OR FEWER CHORDS. I've heard my teacher play 'Patience' by Take That during a gig so it is possible.â€
I learned early on about the absence of full chords. I use double stops and partials, predominately use the bass strings as drones. In a way, playing the 12 string guitar over three years before I got the ruan(s) already had me in the mindset of playing in open tuning. My God, as is, the thing is practically alive with tone. I’ve had guitarists try it and freak over the warmth of steel string flatwounds! It took me a while to get used to that myself. But yes, I learned with chords less is definitely more; though I will say that the proper use of chords as accents with the right attack can be thunderous on the ruan!
Ed, I’m happy in the direction I’m going. It’ll be three years this July I’ve been playing it. I sold my last six string guitar (a Gibson Mark 35 acoustic) just a month ago. At one time I had eight guitars. I’m down to two ruans and a 12 string (never played, but I won’t sell it). To give you an idea of how the ruan has affected me musically, consider this excerpt from an email to a guitarist friend of mine regarding John Coltrane’s recording A Love Supreme:
“The emotion, the purity, the sinew, the miraculous textures, all these things make it a superior work of art! Part of the way through it made me exalt in choosing the ruan, or having the ruan choose me. The spirit of what Coltrane emoted on those tracks is deliriously inspiring. At times it was damn near overwhelming. Listening to such a great work of art I can’t help but think, why do I bother, I’ll never achieve that state of virtuosity in my life time (for Trane it wasn’t about virtuosity – he was just playing himself). But there’s the rub, for me, or for you, or any other purveyor of sound manipulation, what you can give of yourself, what you can emote from coming to grips with self and what you can invoke, express, exude. There have been times with the ruan, early on, where I’ve thought, ahhhhhh, this will do, this is grace, this is why I play it and it plays me. Does that make sense?â€
What can I say, I’m smitten!
“I can't play the guitar, though I had a few lessons a couple of decades ago (I have just bought an ukulele for light relief) and would love to play my all-time favourite pop song on it: Donovan's Catch the Wind.â€
The last time I played six string guitar regularly was 2005, after KATRINA (I live in New Orleans), from 2006 to 2009 was the 12 string only. The ruan smacked me so thoroughly that I gave up the 12er in less than two weeks! Like I said – smitten! In less than three years I either gave away or sold my guitar collection. I’m in it for the long haul.
“The bridge on the zhongruan may need adjustment to sound it's best; don't just rely on the pencil-mark.â€
That’s true. Like an American archtop guitar, or any string instrument with a “floating bridgeâ€, you can move it around to change or enforce tone. I had to re – bone my old ruan. Unfortunately, a few frets were cocked and have thrown the intonation off on certain frets. I have a luthier friend who’s checking online for the best method to fix it (water buffalo bone glued with wood glue).
“Since David has a zhongruan book and since my computer skills are so dire could David upload a fingering chart for it please ?â€
A fingering chart would be great. I have a chord chart, most of it useless, as we both agree – full chords on the ruan sound awkward, discordant. Unless you want to sound dissonant, full chords are a hindrance to playing the ruan. What I want to do now is augment the chord chart I made up (like I said, partials and double stops) and learn to read and write music.
“We would all love to hear some of your recordings.â€
Consider it done. I’ll try and post a track tonight.
“Best wishes
Edâ€
Ed…you have no idea what a pleasure it is to “meet†you.
~ Eppy
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Post by davidmdahl on Apr 11, 2012 7:41:22 GMT
According to my zhongruan book, there are several common tunings. At least there are several charts: G-d-a-e1, A-d-a-d1, G-d-g-d1. I can't read the Chinese, so I don't know how much more common one tuning is over another. One likely possibility is that the well-rounded zhongruan player tunes to whatever scheme fits the music. I think you could pretty much tune any way that suits you. Certainly tuning in 5ths is within the tradition.
I could scan the fingering charts. Would jianpu charts be of use?
Best wishes,
David
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Post by valdae on Apr 11, 2012 14:27:51 GMT
David
Though I am not familiar with them, the charts would be of help. The tuning I chose, and this was before I even got the instrument, proved to be a perfect fit for me. I tried G D A E briefly but didn't find it as satisfying as my old tuning. I may try it again at some point.
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Post by davidmdahl on Apr 11, 2012 20:09:55 GMT
The tuning g-d-a-e is the same as for violin and mandolin, for what it's worth. In any case, I think that whatever tuning works for you is fine. Several years ago I asked an old Vietnamese master musician about the tuning of an instrument. He seemed not to understand my question at first, or maybe he was just surprised that I could ask such a ridiculous question. Finally, he suggested that I tune however I liked, of course. In practice, I wind up tuning according to the setting of the music, depending on the other instruments in the group, and the vocal range of the singer, if there is one. I am hoping that the mental flexibillity this requires will allow me to postpone the eventual visit from Mr. Alzheimer.
I should be able to post scans of the fingering charts in the next few days, if not this evening.
Best wishes,
David
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Post by xiaodizimusic on Apr 11, 2012 21:01:44 GMT
Its really very interesting the experience of David.Actually the local master musician is the best way for someone to learn deeper. From my own experience i have noticed that many traditional local master musicians have absolute pitch and excellent memory,while they dont know the notation systems.
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Post by bud on Apr 25, 2012 0:33:13 GMT
It is great so see some Zhongruan musicians here. I purchased one in Hong Kong last year and have been playing it a little. I did purchase some instruction books over there, but have not had the patience to try to figure it out. I have it tuned GDGD. I do have one question for you. It seems the action or height of the strings above the frets is quite high. Is this normal for a Zhongruan? I typically play mandolin and guitar, so I'm used to a lower action. I guess I could sand down the bottom of the bridge, but I didn't want to do that if the instrument is intended to be played as it is.
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Post by edcat7 on Apr 25, 2012 0:59:46 GMT
Yes, it's normal that the stings are quite high over the frets. I don't think the zhongruan is difficult to play- it's just not easy trying to decipher the books without a teacher.
Valdae's technique is typically guitar based and he has got good results.
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Post by valdae on Apr 25, 2012 13:38:43 GMT
Bud
The action really isn't that high. In fact it's really what I would call medium, and you're literally fretting the fret. As you get used to playing it you'll find it "normal". In any case, welcome and enjoy this wonderful instrument.
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Post by xindi on Apr 26, 2012 20:03:58 GMT
I don't play zhongruan, although I enjoy playing with the ones in Hong Kong's shops  Yes - compared to a mandolin, the fret-string distance is much higher. You need much greater tension to hold down the ruan strings. I tried out of interest, just to see if I could use the pipa lun zhi movement on it. It's really hard because the force required even to vibrate the highest pitch string is much greater. You will get used to it with time. Actually, one reason I hate the guitar is the way it crams all the fingers on a tiny fret board. I prefer the freedom of the chinese lute instruments, which allow greater tremelo potential and fingering gymnastics for the inexperienced (Flamenco/Spanish fingering is totally beyond me). |
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Post by valdae on Apr 26, 2012 21:39:38 GMT
I agree, xindi. The fingerboard of my older ruan is quite wide, allowing for easier movement. My other ruan has a narrow fingerboard, which can be a pain, especially going from one to the other. After playing conventional guitar over thirty years moving to the ruan wasn't all that difficult. It took time to get used to fingering those elevated frets but in short order it became second nature.
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Post by bud on May 3, 2012 2:23:55 GMT
Thanks so much for your replies. I'll leave the action as is and will continue to practice.
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Post by davidmdahl on May 16, 2012 7:41:07 GMT
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Post by valdae on May 16, 2012 16:20:39 GMT
I'm not exactly sure what I'm looking at but I will save them. Thanks for posting the charts.
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Post by edcat7 on May 16, 2012 17:23:44 GMT
The charts are complicated; the last two are more understandable.
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Post by davidmdahl on May 16, 2012 18:17:21 GMT
What do you find confusing about the charts? For example, chart-gdgd is useful for a zhongruan tuned to Gdgd, and shows for each key the scale degrees of the open strings. So, for the key of G, the open strings are 1 and 5. Probably of limited use, but it could help, so I included it.
If you have specific questions, I will try to answer. Keep in mind that I don't read Chinese, and just have to deduce the meaning from the chart.
Best wishes,
David
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Post by edcat7 on May 16, 2012 21:08:44 GMT
Sorry David, I meant thanks for your time and effort. My liuqin/zhongruan is tuned as is my teacher's to GDGD.
Experienced musicians unlike myself would play by instinct and after years of constant repetition. Changing the tunings would only confuse a novice like myself.
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Post by danz on Jul 21, 2023 2:36:32 GMT
Zhongruan Bridge Setup
How to set up the Zhongruan bridge?, I play the banjo and the bridge is set up by measuring from the Nut to the top of the 12 th fret, then that distance is how far away from the 12th fret . Is it similar for the Zhongruan?
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Post by lightningduck on Jul 23, 2023 5:25:57 GMT
Zhongruan Bridge Setup How to set up the Zhongruan bridge?, I play the banjo and the bridge is set up by measuring from the Nut to the top of the 12 th fret, then that distance is how far away from the 12th fret . Is it similar for the Zhongruan? That's the same measurement on guitars, acoustic or electric, too and bass guitars as well, although they don't usually have floating bridges so the player doesn't need to worry about it. More complicated bridge setups, such as my bass, have micro tunings that will adjust the saddle position as well as the broader string tension tuning My sanxian has a floating bridge and no frets (and rather ambiguous tuning) so I can pretty much set the bridge where I want that puts the 'octave' note at a comfortable place for my arm angle |
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Post by lightningduck on Jul 23, 2023 5:29:00 GMT
Experienced musicians unlike myself would play by instinct and after years of constant repetition. Changing the tunings would only confuse a novice like myself. That's one reason that after over three decades of playing bass, I tuned my two sanxian ADG and GCF (in fourths...as my bass) rather than traditional sanxian tunings. All my scale, interval, etc...muscle memory transfers to the new instruments |
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