Trying to get to grips with F major tuning

[xindi]

Having spent most of my time developing on D major and G major, I had a bit of music on these keys.

I've now tuned to F major. I wonder if any one can give any hints on how/what to play in this key.

I notice that semitones are more available....through bending techniques. Are there notable pieces in F major, which doesn't require as much bending?

[sanmenxia]

Do you mean playing in a different key on the same flute?

I've just had a look at my Lu Chunling book and Partridge Flying (Zhegu fei) is:

1 = F (2 with dot under)

I've never understood dizi keys, another piece starts in:

1 = F (5 with dot under)

but then changes to:

1 = B flat (2 with dot under)

[xindi]

Hi San,

Opps...i was referring to the guzheng actually.

Yes for the flute it.s possible to transpose pieces, by sliding the numbers, so the 5.. (lowest) becomes a 2.. And all the numbers in jian pu shift by a third/fourth depending on the music.

With the guzhenf, its really strange.

In the key of D, bending for absent notes C and G are done by bending strings 4 and 7 because unlike the dizi which has 6 holes plus a no hole covered note (C), the guzheng only has 5 strings = 5 notes.

[sanmenxia]

Sorry I didn't notice this thread's in the guzheng section!

I don't play the guzheng but AFAIK when you play in a different key you have to retune some of the strings.

Eg in D:

do re mi sol la do
D E F# A B D


but the same strings in G should be:

sol la do re mi sol
D E G A B D

so you have to retune the F# to G.

Again in F it's

la do re mi sol la
D F G A C D

Therefore you can play a piece in any key, but some of the high or low notes might not be available.

If you want to play fa, you always bend the mi string to get fa, but of course the actual string will be different in different keys.

[xindi]

Oct 30, 2011 13:24:35 GMT sanmenxia said:

Sorry I didn't notice this thread's in the guzheng section!

I don't play the guzheng but AFAIK when you play in a different key you have to retune some of the strings.

Eg in D:

do re mi sol la do
D E F# A B D


but the same strings in G should be:

sol la do re mi sol
D E G A B D

so you have to retune the F# to G.

Again in F it's

la do re mi sol la
D F G A C D

Therefore you can play a piece in any key, but some of the high or low notes might not be available.

If you want to play fa, you always bend the mi string to get fa, but of course the actual string will be different in different keys.

Thanks again. Yes this is what i'm doing.

I can improvise (to my taste) fairly well on D and G major keys.....its just that in F major, it sounds like I don't know what I'm actually doing!

(pretty much lol!)

In F major, nothing sounds right when I play it. Perhaps you're on the ball... I should just play dizi music in F major, which I have a fair bit of. Unlike for the guzheng.

I was wondering if more bending and half notes were used to decorate the music in this key...or if it just doesn't have as great a literature as D major key music.

Btw just been trying A major...it sounds rather interesting too...

[yudingbon]

The key to learning new tuning systems is to know which note is your pitch centre. That is to say, what is the scale set of the piece and which string is it on the zheng. You will notice that the piece will always gravitate towards the tonal centre, whilst going on detours. Hard to explain on the internet, but its like a modal system in Western Art music, or the Raga of Indian music. There is always a way the melody behaves and leads into the main note.

So what I did when I was leaning a new key is to sing a melody and match it on the zheng. Then improvise with a particular string as the tonal centre. From there I added in the fa and si of the scale in the improvision. Only when I had an idea of where the pitches were and how the zheng behaved in those keys (ie, how far do I need to bend for notes or ornaments) did I play the sheet music.

A tip for all who reads this: one had to remember that music is an aural traditional, so always begin there. Notes and notation mean nothing if you do not understand what you are playing and what the sound are supposed to sound like.

~Lucian

[xindi]

Thanks Lucian..thats a more systematic way than what I've been doing. I am quite bad at reading jian pu for zheng....my stand makes the music hard to read and I get a sense of irritation reading music sitting down than standing! So I just like to improvise on the zheng.

As you know ...I've moved to the key of C, bending for F# and C# (3rd and 6th/1st) strings, or just going for the B b green solo bend. Its making sense when I follow non Lydian scales....these sound a bit dead pan for improvising. I wonder if anyone hasn't experimented with jazz pentatonic tunings for the zheng?

Anywy, its a change from my penchant for funeral music :-)

[Ruisi]

Hello Xindi,

I'd like to share my experience in different keys. Whenever I play in a different key on guzheng, two notes are the most important, namely the high-lighted strings (green or red) and the only ones with 5 octaves.

Specifically, in key of D, you'll find 5 (so) and 1 (do) easily, because 5 (so) are colored and 1 (do)are the only ones with 5 octaves. Based on green 5 (so), you'll find 3 (mi) easily, because they are 1 string down from green 5 (so); 6 (la) is 1 string up from green; Based on 1 (do), you'll find 2 (re) easily, which is 1 string up from 1 (do).

Same rule applied in key of F, you'll find 3 (mi) and 6 (la) easily, because 3 (mi) are colored and 6 (la)are the only ones with 5 octaves. Similarly, based on green 3 (mi)you can locate 2 (re)and 5 (so) easily; based on 6 (la), you can locate 1 (do) easily.

For F key, the piece I play most and like the most is "孔雀东南飞" KongQueDongNanFei.

Once you master one piece of music in a new key, you'll find it's easier to improvise or learn new piece in this key.

Best,
Ruisi

[edcat7]

Hi Ruisi and welcome,

I'm glad we have an expert on the guzheng here now. We get the occasional question about it but none of the main forum members except David play the guzheng. May I ask where you are because lately we've had a few enquiries from UK members.

Best wishes,

Ed

[Ruisi]

Hello Ed,
Nice to hear from you! It's interesting to discuss topics that we share the common interests.

I'm living in Portland, Oregon, U.S. right now. I'd be happy to offer my help with the UK members.

Please feel free to let me know.

Best regards,
Ruisi