Old tunes

[Si]

What tunes sould you advise me to start learning as a beginner. I am not very interested in modern tunes or any westenised tunes, just the ancient one (golden oldies)

I saw on a web site they had the Mainland China Level 1-10 grding system. The level one tunes are:

Guqin yin
Xiang Fei yuan
Feng Qiu huang
kai gu yin
lou shi ming

Are these old tunes or annoying new ones, with sickly chirpy melodies??

Cheers - simon

[Charlie Huang]

About 99.9% of the qin repetoire is composed of 'old' or 'ancient' tunes. Those that you mention are 'old'. I'd start with Guqin Yin and Fengqiu Huang, then go onto the likes of Qiufeng Ci, etc.

[sleepy]

My teacher started me off with elementary fingering drills, it went on for 2 months before she taught me the first piece, which was Qiu Feng Ci.

[Si]

Can you read chinese?

How did you get used to reading all those characters for the strokes and positions etc.

One bebinners question - why do some scores show western and jian zi pu charaters together? Cos you cant play the piece with the western notes alone, can you? You must have the Jian zi pu, so the western notes are realy note too useful.

Or am I wrong?

[blueharp]

You don't *have* to read Chinese to figure out the jianzi-pu. You need to know what the numbers 1 to 13 look like; the symbols for tiao, gou and cuo; and the characters shan and xia. That can get you through most of the beginner pieces.

There is a great reference done by Jim Binkley (a really swell guy) at:

www.cs.pdx.edu/~jrb/chin/index.html

Under chapter 4 are the listings for Left, Right and Left-Right Combination fingerings available in PostScript or Word format.

If you PM me I can email the Word format to you.

It is difficult to play a guqin piece directly from western score because there is no information about which string/finger/technique to utilize. Once you get familiar with the instrument it is possible, but not easy or completely reliable. You need mode and tuning information and even then...

The jianzi-pu on the other hand has everything but the rhythm.

If you are trying to learn with minimal teaching it is invaluable to have both.

That said the best way to learn a piece is from a teacher because you can see/hear what they are doing.

The jianzi-pu is great if you have a vcd or a recording that you can play over and over. It is used as a reminder as to what the actual fingering is once you learn the piece.

I learned Guan Shan Yue from the jianzipu that our wonderful moderator posted. If you have the tune in your head (or on a recording), it is remarkably clear to read.

Get a hold of Professor Li Xiangting's VCD set if at all possible. It is very well done and has a booklet of music with it in both staff and jianzi-pu. Very very useful!

Steve

[Charlie Huang]

Of course, if you're like me and study hard enough, you can be so familiar with jianzi-pu that you can dapu scores purely from jianzi-pu and nothing else. (don't attempt this if you're a beginner)

[Si]

Does any body know where I can get the jian zi pu of those few beginner pieces so i can have a practice?

Any site to download from?

Cheers.

[Charlie Huang]

You really should buy Guqin Quji vol. 1 & 2. It has all the scores you need to have at your disposal until you reach intermediate level. Saves time and trouble asking around. CCN sells both for a resonable price.

[Si]

is it possible to write it in chinese so i can show the shop keeper?

[sleepy]

It's better to let a teacher teach you the basics of qin playing so that you'll be less likely to build up bad habits without realizing it. I thought you were going to attend Gong Yi's classes...

BTW the info for the 2 books in chinese is:
Title: 古琴曲集，第一、第二册 (vol.1&2)
Publisher: 人民音乐出版社。

Hope the forum displays the characters properly

[Si]

Well I want to practise the jian zi pu cos all the other chinese in my class will have an advantage over me in being very familiar with the parts of the characters that make up a jian zi pu.

I have enrolled at the Gu qin class in shanghai. It seems to be part of the conservatory. Its 85rmb per lesson but thats a group of 5. I thought this was best for starters - having gong yi teaching me and not understanding him seems to me not worth it. No doubt you lot would all jump at the chance, but anyway...

I also bought my gu qin from the this shop. They only get good ones by the looks of it. I really wanted to splash out on a 10,000rmb one but I think I will wait till my playing warrants a bitter instrument.

Its a cool place to hang out actualy, as the teachers place pieces when they are not teaching and the boss makes oolong tea, and you can chat or browse through the qin pu's. Tonight they have a informal concert by a famous player from Sichuan.

[sleepy]

I wouldn't worry too much about not being able to read chinese because this might affect your qin score reading ability. Jian-zi pu symbols aren't real Chinese characters, but they are made up of parts of some chinese words and only make sense in qin pu. I would see them as fingering symbols just like any other instruments. It's only when you want study qin history or it's literatures in depth, than you'll need to be able to read the language.

A group class somewhat creates competitive vibes among students, yet I wouldn't worry too much how the others do in comparison to your own progress. When you're not in the professional arena, qin playing is supposed to be leisurely.

Li Xiang Ting's 2-disc teaching vcd set is accompanied by a small booklet which includes notations for certain basic but common fingering techniques in both jian-zi pu and western staff. This may help you get familiarize with those basic symbols.

And then, jian-zi pu or any notational symbols mainly let you know how to use your fingers on the instrument, once you know how to play and memorize the score, the fingering symbols sort of become redundant. Again, since you are not in the professional arena, it isn't necessary to establish jian-zi pu sight-reading ability, haha!

[blueharp]

I wanna go to Shanghai! ;D

Sleepy is right. Your classmates will have just as much a difficult time getting a handle on the jianzi-pu as you.

Have you ever seen Gregg shorthand? It is rarely used these days but it is a codified fast way to accurately write down what someone dictates. Even though it is based on English it is almost impossible to read.

Congratulation on the new guqin!!!!

You are very very very fortunate. Guqin lessons are around $60US per lesson for a group lesson.

Did you enjoy the concert? Who played?

[Si]

Well the concert is tonight(sunday).

Since I have enrolled I actualy have found a very good english speaking teacher who charges 120rmb. Sound tempting as its one on one.

Ye sthe gu qin looks great, but it does not sound as good as the more expensive ones, but I think its ok for now.

[Si]

I just went down to the book shop and bought those 2 Gu Qin books for 30 and 15 rmb respectively.

They dont seem to have any beginners tunes in there. I can see the all the famous ones though.

Can any of you recommed some beginners tunes from these books. If you can tell me the number of the tune as well as the nam eit wil help me to identify it.

Cheers All

[Charlie Huang]

Shuanghe Tingquan
Qiufeng Ci
Fengqiu Huang
Guanshan Yue
Bilou Chunxiao (something like that, I'm not at home to check)
Oulu Wangji
Qingye Yin
Qi Yanhui
Jiu Kuang
Yangguan Sandie
etc...

[carol]

I found a book that's really useful for beginners. It's called "Guqing Practical Teaching" by Li Xiang Ting. ŒÃ‹Õ›‰—p‹³’ö

There are lots of drills in it. Then the first few songs are:
Chang Xiang Si
He Chong Xiao
Qiu Feng Ci
Feng Qiu Huang
Jiu Kuan

[Charlie Huang]

The green one? I've got that. And yes, a beginner MUST get that. Though be warned as there are some printing errors on it. You might want to wait for the second edition to be published first.

[Si]

Are there leaves on the front cover?

I could not read the chinese on your message.

That sounds more usefull to me at my stage, I must admit.

[Charlie Huang]

LXT's new book is all green front and back cover, with a qin (of course). The name is something like Guqin Jiaocheng, I'm not sure. I listed it in the references section of my wikipedia article. Go check.

EDIT: Li, Xiangting (2004). Guqin Shiyong Jiaocheng. Shanghai: Shanghai Music Publishers. ISBN 7-80667-439-X

[kyokuhon]

Hi, Charles and all,
Could you send out the page numbers or titles in characters of the beginner pieces you cite from GQQJ above? I've found some of them, but I'd like to find them all.
Thanks, Charles,
and best to all,
Chris.

[Si]

I found a few of them too, but i would not call them beginners peices.

[Charlie Huang]

Download the Guqin Certificate Exam list from CCN, print it off then compare. Almost all the scores in GQQJ are listed in there. And yes, some ones that I listed are not very 'beginnery' pieces but nevertheless, most I would say are suitable.

[kyokuhon]

Thanks, Charles,
Of course, that's what I'll do. Sorry, I wasn't thinking and/or getting lazy.
Best again,
K.

[Si]

Do you have to be a member or something, cos I cant see any lists available.

By the way the Li Xiang TIng learning book (green cover) is great (apart from the fact that I cant read any of it). Nice simple excersise pieces.

Cheers