pk
Novice
"The best way to find yourself is to lose yourself in the service of others."
Posts: 15
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Post by pk on Jan 19, 2006 0:15:59 GMT
..... a guzheng sounds like a guzhend did 50 years ago and looks like it did as always ..... The modern Chinese guzheng does not look and sound as it did in distant history. In the past, it was a better instrument, and possibly sounded better. For example, the Japanese Koto evolved from the guzheng, but didn't really evolved that much. (The Japanese are really keen on safeguarding traditions.) In contrast, the modern Chinese guzheng has evolved, but instead of progressing, it regressed. Nowadays, the average guzheng is poorly designed and badly made, and decorated with aweful "kitsch". Chinese guzheng manufacturers try to outcompete each other by making cheaper and cheaper guzhengs. They do not focus on creating delightful sound, but rather on decorations. People outside China are used to buying much higher quality products and musical instruments than the average modern guzheng.
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Post by carol on Jan 19, 2006 0:42:40 GMT
I believe those are retail price. Factories don't just give out wholesale price over the phone. The price seems to be slightly higher than the price I've seen in retail stores. I am often quoted higher for my Taiwanese accent. So sad!
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Post by carol on Jan 19, 2006 0:54:48 GMT
hmmm, the guzheng today certainly doesn't look or sound like the guzheng 50 years ago.
The guzheng 50 years ago looks and sounds more like a dan tranh. The guzheng 1000 years ago looks and sounds like a koto. The guzheng 2000 years ago looks and sounds like a kayagum.
The guzheng today doesn't look or sound like what it was in any period of it's history. It is also developing from a folk instrument to a full concert instrument. A much different standard is applied in defining a guzheng to be "good".
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pk
Novice
"The best way to find yourself is to lose yourself in the service of others."
Posts: 15
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Post by pk on Jan 19, 2006 3:04:44 GMT
The guzheng 50 years ago looks and sounds more like a dan tranh. The guzheng 1000 years ago looks and sounds like a koto. The guzheng 2000 years ago looks and sounds like a kayagum. Carol, you have a great memory! I am sure you are right about that!
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pk
Novice
"The best way to find yourself is to lose yourself in the service of others."
Posts: 15
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Post by pk on Jan 23, 2006 1:31:51 GMT
... It is also developing from a folk instrument to a full concert instrument ... Frankly, I would not want to play any of the commercially available guzhengs in a concert. That's where I disagree.
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Post by sunny on Jan 23, 2006 9:34:43 GMT
Anybody knows the big guzheng shops in Hong Kong ? Please kindly advise.
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pk
Novice
"The best way to find yourself is to lose yourself in the service of others."
Posts: 15
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Post by pk on Jan 23, 2006 11:44:32 GMT
Anybody knows the big guzheng shops in Hong Kong ? There are some in Wan Chai on Wan Chai Road, but the selection is not very good, as majority of people buy instruments from their teachers. There are other stores scattered around HK (including one on the Peak), which sell B-class guzhengs at unbelievably low price. However, you will get what you pay for.
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Post by gili on Jan 23, 2006 14:33:29 GMT
Good teachers can usually offer great advice. However, while there are standard qualities that make up a good guzheng, many other factors are personal preferences. What your teacher likes may not be ideal to you. For beginners, it is wise to wait until intermediate level to invest significant money on your 'perfect' guzheng. Most importantly, do diligent research on market values of the guzheng you're looking for. Ultimately you know a guzheng comes from a certain maker or manufacturer whether supervised or not supervised by master, made or not made by master, so there IS a fair price.
If you choose to ask your teacher for help, or buy one off from you teacher, make sure your teacher is looking out for your interest, not his/hers. But beware of teachers too eager to sell you a guzheng. There are enough teachers out there that spend more time selling guzhengs than teaching, so you might come across one. Even some very trophy teachers rip their students off. Too many people I know got burned. When they learn enough to realize that the so-called 'custom-made' guzheng is really not so special, it's too late. There's no lifetime money-back guarantee in the guzheng industry. In my opinion, it is best to buy it from a teacher who doesn't own the business itself.
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Post by sunny on Mar 29, 2006 8:55:24 GMT
To all my dear friends in this forum, actually I do not want to shout out at the moment but I think I lost my patience after a certain period. I bought a Dunhuang Zitan (Chang Ur Design)from CADENZA, Singapore in Jan.2006 which was more expensive than eason-enterprise(at that time ChineseZither still did not offer the Dunhuang). They shipped me a damaged guzheng !!!!!! I found that the unproperly fixed nails inside the CASE (covered by the velvet)and the nails might hit the guzheng frame all the time during the delivery. I took the photos and sent them for the claim. The last message from them informed me that Dunhuang do apologize for the damage but no fund compensation ?? I said I did not buy from Dunhuang but CADENZA, therefore CADENZA have to compensate me for the damage while it is not my business to know what suppose to be the agreement between Dunhuang VS CADENZA. Until now we are at the end of Mar.I still have not yet received any positive reply from them. So I need this forum to spread out what I have experienced with this seller. Please spread this case to your beloved friends who should avoid this terrible seller.
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Post by YouLanFengChune on Mar 29, 2006 15:23:46 GMT
Hi!
I understand your unhappiness. I myself am not in Singapore, flying in and out, and I have spoken to Dunhuang Shanghai, who did your packing to Singapore, and the package was untouched on transit.
As of now, Dunhuang Shanghai have taken up full responsibility for your case. I am still chasing for compensation, which is amounting to US $400. They are refusing.
I do not wish to give any false hopes, and my clerk, esther had notifed me of your emails.
Let me chase at them to get more deals for you. At current, they are only willing to pay renminbi 1000, which is absurd by any case.
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Post by carol on Mar 29, 2006 17:04:19 GMT
Sorry I have to stick in here, although it's not my business. "Dunhuang did the packing to Singapore, and the package was untouched during transit"? Is that a joke? Hey, that's a $1700 Zitan guzheng!
For customer paying such high mark up than Dunhuang's retail price, doesn't he or she deserve Cadenza to properly check the instrument before shipping out?
If that's Cadenza's service, then what's the difference between ordering from Dunhuang's mail order department and from Cadenza besides paying tons more money?
I hate to see when people don't treat guzheng sincerely!!!!
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Post by davidmdahl on Mar 29, 2006 18:11:05 GMT
I am sorry to hear about the damaged guzheng, and hope that there is a happy resolution. When I have had damaged musical instruments, I have had excellent results by going to a luthier, such as a violin or guitar maker. They are used to working with wood and know how to resolve problems. Recently, the head on one of my erhus was broken, and a local violin maker glued it on such that not even I can find the repair.
What is the standard for shipping large zithers? My 21-string dan tranh came from Saigon in a wooden crate, and was well-packed in bubble-wrap. That's a lot of weight for a relatively light instrument, but it arrived safely.
Best wishes,
David
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Post by YouLanFengChune on Mar 30, 2006 1:18:07 GMT
We do apologise for the damage, and with assurance, we confirmed that there WILL be substantial compensation from the onset.
Cadenza's concept is selection at source. Our specialist stationed in Shanghai, Singaporeans, do selection of Guzheng based on quality of high standards. Our friends on the forum who has prchased anything can confirm this. The high costs compared to Dunhuang mail order is for high quality.
For sunny, your Guzheng has come with a personal calligraphy endorsed by Xu Zhen Gao. Its the new models, for anti-piracy. The Guzheng was so good,by sound,wood grain or even beauty. even I was tempted to keep it.
The damage occurred because of a nail misaligned in the box.
Cadenza sends out at least 5 Zitarn Guzheng every month, exceeding Yi Wu and Shandong's sale of 695J Guzheng. As I pay Dunhuang a premium for 1st selection out of 4 (They prepare 4 for me to choose from at least everytime), It is my right to fight for a compensation ffor my customers.
I know that the Guzheng has a damage 3cm by 2 cm at the base edge. Rest assured I am trying to fight for the maximum compensation. Going right to themanufacturer instead of making retailers pay for compensation is the movement we are moving for in Singapore. Rationale: If you make retailers pay for these damages due to factory defects, the prices will have to be kept up, and we will have to push down wholesale price in order to make up for the warranty. Make manufacturers pay, and they will keep quality up. Its as simple.
Prasarn, I'm sorry for the long wait. I, Ye Yinhao, will see to it that you get a substanial compensation.
Yinhao, from Hangzhou.
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Post by sleepy on Mar 30, 2006 3:10:41 GMT
Such a classic case of trying to shrug off responsiblity when something goes wrong in a transaction. "Oh it's not my fault, someone else did it blah blah blah..." Sorry, YouLan but that's the impression I get from reading your responses. Sounds like how much sunny gets back depends on how much you'll get back from Dunhuang.
Presumably sunny made payment to your shop but not to Dunhuang, he's got all the rights to expect your shop to take full responsibility. How you negotiate with your supplier to get your own compensation is between you and your supplier, which isn't really the cusotmer's main concern.
Buying instruments online or via mail order, the customer has already lost the priviledge of selecting and testing in person. It's only fair to the customer if the retailer offers something like money back guarantee within a trial period.
And oh, to all shoppers: always try to pay by credit cards when you're spending $$$$$ on a piece of goods you've never seen and touched prior to purchase!
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Post by YouLanFengChune on Mar 30, 2006 4:38:17 GMT
I will be going to Shanghai again on Saturday. I will give Sunny a valid response as soon as i can. I am trying my best to achieve a better compensationary package for sunny. It will be more than what they give.
Some of you may have difficlty reaching me via the cadenza emails. It may be easier to get me by yeahohoho@yahoo.com
The cadenza emails may be read by my staff in Singapore.
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Post by Tiffany on Mar 30, 2006 15:08:35 GMT
A friend of mine also experienced some damages a while back. I think it'll be nice to take more care in packing those delicate instruments just to give the customers confidence. Simply shoving the instruments in a hard case in not enough because the hard case does not absorb shocks very well. I think a combination of bubbewraps and stylrofoam works pretty. I had someone wrapped my guzheng with old cloth. That's just equally inadequate. According to UPS, the minimum thickness of soft packaging must be 2" all around the actual product in order to qualify for insurance proceed.
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Post by carol on Mar 30, 2006 17:45:01 GMT
Cadenza's concept is selection at source. Our specialist stationed in Shanghai, Singaporeans, do selection of Guzheng based on quality of high standards. Our friends on the forum who has prchased anything can confirm this. The high costs compared to Dunhuang mail order is for high quality. For sunny, your Guzheng has come with a personal calligraphy endorsed by Xu Zhen Gao. Its the new models, for anti-piracy. The Guzheng was so good,by sound,wood grain or even beauty. even I was tempted to keep it. I'm quite confused. It sounds like Yinhao has seen the guzheng and was tempted to buy one as well. But he also said that the guzheng was packed in Shanghai and shipped to Singapore then transferred to Thailand without being opened!!?? (So he concluded it's Dunhuang's responsibility, since Cadenza didn't open it in Singapore.) I assume that means Yinhao was in Shanghai to select that guzheng for Sunny? Or the selection is done by a Cadenza specialist, and Yinhao has never seen that guzheng himself? In either case, since there is a Candenza staff in Shanghai already, why can't Cadenza shipped directly from Shanghai to Thailand for faster shipping and minimize the chance of damage? Or was there any Cadenza specialist in Shanghai at all?
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Post by carol on Mar 30, 2006 18:03:13 GMT
In general, I think a qualified reseller exams all merchandise upon receiving from the factory. Any damage claims with the factory should be done before selling the merchandise. It's very irresponsible to not check the merchandise before selling, and go back to the factory for claim after the merchandise is sold. It's even more irresponsible to have the customer wait for factory's compensation.
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Post by sunny on Apr 7, 2006 6:30:04 GMT
Thanks everyone for sharing my unhappiness and appreciate for every single sympathy. Let's see how long this case will be settled amicably. Now we are in April !!! I will keep all of you posted.
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Post by YouLanFengChune on Apr 7, 2006 9:38:23 GMT
Hi!
I am now in Yiwu, Zhejiang. Carlo's Jinhu is here...
I have notified Singapore to send you an official letter by Snail Mail. Please receive and reply for the compensation.
Thanks you.
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Post by andylang on Sept 15, 2013 18:43:59 GMT
Hello Everyone,
i just joined and have a question on a Dunhuang Guzheng model 894L, does anyone have any detail or specification for this model?
Many thanks in advance.
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Post by davidmdahl on Sept 16, 2013 2:26:22 GMT
Hello Everyone, i just joined and have a question on a Dunhuang Guzheng model 894L, does anyone have any detail or specification for this model? Many thanks in advance. Welcome to the forum, andylang. There are so many middling models of Dunhuang, that it is going to be hit or miss to find someone who has that particular model, unless you can ask a vendor who actually carries it. You might ask one of the more full-service vendors about that model like Eason Music or Carol at Sound of Asia. You could also post your question on the guzheng forum at www.chinesezither.net/forum/ . The challenge is going to be that most of the guzheng models available outside of China are of the better quality Yun brand of export Dunhuang, while the models available inside China are not going to be well-known to vendors who sell primarily to foreigners. You may have to find a Chinese language forum on the guzheng to get comments from people who own a 894L. I suggest checking out the guzhengs at Sound of Asia. Carol does have Dunhuang and will be able to answer your questions since she knows the guzheng and her stock well. Best wishes, David
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Post by carol on Sept 19, 2013 17:21:53 GMT
894L is the Dunhuang Yun's equivalent to Dunhuang brand's 694L. It's a professional rosewood model. 694/894 means general rosewood.(might be different species, such as Pear wood/bubinga....) "L" means mother-of-pearl inlay. It's the same grade as any 894 or 694 with one letter attached to the end. An equivalent will be this one 894E. Letter "E" means carved caligraphy. www.chinesezither.net/Dunhuang-Yun-Guzheng-894E.html
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Post by davidmdahl on Sept 20, 2013 16:01:19 GMT
Thanks for responding with an authoritative answer, Carol.
Best wishes,
David
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Post by lminminm on Mar 7, 2014 23:52:14 GMT
Hi, I am a Guzheng learner as well. I want to buy a Guzheng in the UK, too. So I was just wondering do you know where i can buy a second hand guzheng as i really want to play in the uk. ? Thanks. My ideal price is under 150 pounds without postage fee, or 180 pounds pounds with postage fee. As I am a student so I cannot afford a lot on it. Please if you have any suggestion, let me know. many thanks.
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